Turning the Tables on the "Other Tribbers"

The 'pre-wrath' that aren't really pre-wrath and post-trib preachers and teachers are fond of stating that pre-tribulation believers will lose their faith if the rapture does not happen when we expect it. The argument is a non-starter since it originates from a lack of understanding. We are believers in JESUS CHRIST, the Son of God. Nobody preached the rapture to me to get me to believe in Jesus. Nobody asked me to make the rapture my Lord and Savior. Etc, etc. Do you see how ridiculously foolish their statement is?

The people who would turn away would be the same ones who would not make it in the rapture to begin with. There is a worthiness involved in the escape from all. Re-read Luke 21:34-36.

Now, I suggest those of you who still debate the "other tribbers" turn the table on them. Next time you are debating, state that they will lose their faith when the pre-tribulation rapture occurs and they were neither watching, nor ready for it. When the rapture occurs and they do not make it, they will lose their faith. Why? They didn't meet the worthiness requirement, thus they give up and walk away. Ridiculous? No more ridiculous than the accusations they level at us.

They cannot accuse us of willful disobedience of the Lord's commands, but that shoe fits them. How so? They refuse to pray for escape (luke 21:36) which=willful disobedience. They know they should do it, they are commanded to do it, and they refuse to do it. They have been commanded to watch and be ready TODAY and everyday for the Lord's return. They know they should do it, they are commanded to do it, and they refuse to do it.

Mark 13:37 What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!'"

What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!'"

Matthew 25:13 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the ...

"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour. ... "So you, too, must keep watch! For you do not know the day or hour of my return

Matthew 26:41 "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into ...

"Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.

Watch and pray that you will not fall into

πειρασμόν

peirasmon

That's the same exact Greek word used here:

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

They know they should pray for escape, they know they should watch and be ready for the Lord's return today, but they refuse. Will there be a cost for this willful disobedience? Will there be a cost for every soul that turns away from the faith as a result of the 'pre-wrath' post-trib teaching NOT to watch for the Lord's return today?

I am not their judge, the Lord is. When the Lord gives them a command and they refuse to do it because of their man made doctrines, I would not want to be them. Why?

John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.

If we love Him we will obey His commands. Will those who do not love Him because they do not obey His commands make it through the narrow path and small gate that leads into heaven (Matt 7:14)? Time will tell.

So, tell them the next time you debate that they will lose their faith when they miss the pre-trib rapture. Think of the depression and anger that will well up when it dawns on them that the Lord meant what He said: there is an escape from all and we should pray for it. Hell on earth is a steep price to pay for believing and teaching a false doctrine.

I do not wish anyone to go through the tribulation/time of wrath etc. If I were judge (and I'm not) I would take every believer with me and cut a break for the rest. I would not leave a single pre-wrath or post-trib teacher/preacher behind, not one. But I am not the judge....

The point of writing this today was to lay out a more valid argument that they (the 'other-tribbers') have a more pressing concern for their own turning away from the faith due to being left behind as a result of willful disobedience, than we do as pre-tribulation believers.

I can only speak for myself when I say that I am watching for the Lord's return every single day. When He shows up, He shows up. Until then I keep watching in readiness. Show me the flaw in that plan?

I pray in all sincerity that not one believer is left behind for any reason. I pray for all the brothers, my family and myself that our sins will be forgiven today and that we may be counted worthy to escape all thats about to happen. If you agree then agree with me in prayer as we pray for each other.

Keep the faith, time may be shorter than we think. grace and peace

Immediately After The Tribulation of Those Days

Here is all the proof you need to shut down the arguments of the"other tribbers" when they try to use Matt 24:29-31:

Matt 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we will prove what this is not ^^^. This is not the rapture of the Church. I do not have to prove what it is, I only have to prove what it is not to completely neutralize its use in the arguments of the "other tribbers."

Proof:

This is the rapture of the church according to 1 Thess 4:

1 Thess 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Since the "other tribbers" agree that the scripture above IS the rapture of the church, we can use it to debunk one of their favorite "proofs."

Rapture checklist, according to 1 Thess 4 this is what happens during the rapture :

1. Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout

2. with the voice of the archangel

3. trump of God

4. dead in Christ shall rise

5. We which are alive and remain caught up in the clouds

6. We meet the Lord in the air

Now lets look at what the "other tribbers" tell us the rapture is:

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here's the "rapture" checklist according to the "other tribbers:"

sun darkened

moon shall not give her light

stars fall from heaven

sign of the Son of man in heaven

Son of man coming in the clouds of heven with power and great glory

He shall send His angels with sound of trumpet

angels gather elect from four winds of heaven

Now lets do a comparison shall we? We'll take the true rapture and compare it point by point with what the other tribbers call the rapture:

During the true rapture, evidence point 1 tells us:

Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout. Can we find this in the other tribbers rapture proof?

sun darkened...(Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout? NO)

moon shall not give her light...(Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout? NO)

stars fall from heaven...(Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout? NO)

sign of the Son of man in heaven...(Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout? NO. I hope that nobody has to spell this out for you..when the Lord Himself descends from heaven it is exponentially above and beyond a "sign" of himself in the heavens...)

Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory...(Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout? NO. There are two words that are common here: Lord and heaven. The descriptors around "Lord" and "heaven" are completely different)

He shall send His angels with sound of trumpet...(Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout? NO)

angels gather elect from four winds of heaven...(Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout? NO)

During the true rapture, evidence point 2 tells us:

2. with the voice of the archangel. Can we find this in the other tribbers rapture proof?

sun darkened...(with the voice of the archangel? NO)

moon shall not give her light...(with the voice of the archangel? NO)

stars fall from heaven...(with the voice of the archangel? NO)

sign of the Son of man in heaven....(with the voice of the archangel? NO)

Son of man coming in the clouds of heven with power and great glory...(with the voice of the archangel? NO)

He shall send His angels with sound of trumpet...(with the voice of the archangel? NO)

angels gather elect from four winds of heaven....(with the voice of the archangel? NO)

During the true rapture, evidence point 3 tells us the rapture occurs with:

3. trump of God. Can we find this in the other tribbers rapture proof?

sun darkened...(3. trump of God? NO)

moon shall not give her light...(3. trump of God? NO)

stars fall from heaven...(3. trump of God? NO)

sign of the Son of man in heaven...(3. trump of God? NO)

Son of man coming in the clouds of heven with power and great glory...(3. trump of God? NO)

He shall send His angels with sound of trumpet...(3. trump of God? NO. There is a "trumpet" during this gathering done by angels but the rapture proof text specifically states that the rapture will happen with the TRUMP OF GOD not just any "trumpet" Please, let the bible define itself and stop trying to make square pegs fit into round holes. Every Word of God has meaning, there are no trivial Words in the Bible, there are no "fillers"....)

angels gather elect from four winds of heaven...(3. trump of God? NO)

During the true rapture, evidence point 4 tells us:

4. dead in Christ shall rise. Can we find this in the other tribbers rapture proof?

sun darkened...(4. dead in Christ shall rise. NO)

moon shall not give her light...(4. dead in Christ shall rise. NO)

stars fall from heaven...(4. dead in Christ shall rise. NO)

sign of the Son of man in heaven...(4. dead in Christ shall rise. NO)

Son of man coming in the clouds of heven with power and great glory...(4. dead in Christ shall rise. NO)

He shall send His angels with sound of trumpet...(4. dead in Christ shall rise. NO)

angels gather elect from four winds of heaven...(4. dead in Christ shall rise. NO)

During the true rapture, evidence point 5 tells us:

5. We which are alive and remain caught up in the clouds. Can we find this in the other tribbers rapture proof?

sun darkened...(5. We which are alive and remain caught up in the clouds? NO)

moon shall not give her light...(5. We which are alive and remain caught up in the clouds? NO)

stars fall from heaven...(5. We which are alive and remain caught up in the clouds? NO)

sign of the Son of man in heaven...(5. We which are alive and remain caught up in the clouds? NO)

Son of man coming in the clouds of heven with power and great glory...(5. We which are alive and remain caught up in the clouds? NO)

He shall send His angels with sound of trumpet...(5. We which are alive and remain caught up in the clouds? NO)

angels gather elect from four winds of heaven...(5. We which are alive and remain caught up in the clouds? NO. Again I hope there is no need to spell this out. "Gathered" and "caught up in the clouds" are radically different words and usages of those words. To say that the scripture would have to have violence done to it to make these two lines fit is an understatement. "Gathered" also has no vertical component to it does it? We will be "caught up" from the earth to the clouds, that is vertical movement. The elect will be gathered from the four winds of heaven implying they were already there in the heavens. Radically different concepts here...)

During the true rapture, evidence point 6 tells us:

6. We meet the Lord in the air. Can we find this in the other tribbers rapture proof?

sun darkened...(6. We meet the Lord in the air? NO)

moon shall not give her light...(6. We meet the Lord in the air? NO)

stars fall from heaven...(6. We meet the Lord in the air? NO)

sign of the Son of man in heaven...(6. We meet the Lord in the air? NO)

Son of man coming in the clouds of heven with power and great glory...(6. We meet the Lord in the air? NO)

He shall send His angels with sound of trumpet...(6. We meet the Lord in the air? NO)

angels gather elect from four winds of heaven...(6. We meet the Lord in the air? NO)

Conclusion:

This is absolutely irrefutable proof that the rapture we all agree on 1 Thess 4 is not the same event that takes place "after the tribulation of those days" in Matt 24:29-31. The other tribbers rapture "proof" has hereby been attacked in detail and found wanting on every single point. Not one single point of detail matches, not one. Whatever is happening in Matt 24:29-31 it is not the rapture and that fact has been established here through point by point comparison with the rapture text we all agree is the rapture of the church.

How much more proof do people need to open up their eyes? Every lie that has been fabricated to discredit the pre-tribulation rapture of the church has been found wanting. The bible defines the bible right? If we all agree that the rapture occurs in 1 Thess 4 and not one detail matches what happens in Matt 24:29-31 then how can anyone argue with a straight face that the rapture occurs in Matt 24:29-31?

grace and peace

No Escape?

There is a growing chorus both inside and outside of churchianity today that tells us "there is no escape from all."

The bible obviously and directly conflicts with that idea. Luke 21:36 clearly tells us that 1. there is an escape from all and 2. we must pray to be counted worthy of that escape. Rev 3:10 tells that faithful remnant that is the church at Philadelphia that they shall be kept from the hour of temptation coming on the entire world.

To drive this point home further today, I'd like for you to consider the lie now being espoused by so called christians all over the world. They tell us there there will be no escape from all. To fully expose how ridiculous their lie is, let us consider these things:

1. Noah: When the Lord told Noah to build an ark, what would have happened if Noah had said "uh, sorry Lord but nobody around here thinks you are going to save me from anything, much less the entire flood." What would have happened? Was Noah spared from the entire flood or not? Yes, Noah was spared from the entire flood, not the last half of it, not 75% of it, he was spared from ALL of the flood. Is that a biblical precedent? Yes. Will the Lord do again what He has already done in the past? Yes. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be again when the Son of Man returns.

How will the Son of Man return? He will return once in the clouds (1 Thes 4:17) and once on the mount of olives (Zech 14:4). You can count those returns however you want. You can call them a "return" or you can call them whatever you want. The fact of the matter is, the Lord will come back for us in the clouds, and he will come back with us to stand on the mount of olives.

2. Lot: What would have happened if the angels came for Lot and Lot would have told them "uh, sorry guys, the people around here are all telling me there is no escape from all the destruction that is coming so I need to stay here and tough it out through the fire and brimstone.." Open your eyes and understand how utterly ridiculous this is. That is what todays so called "pre-wrath" and "post-trib" believers are telling us.

Today's "other tribbers" are telling us that Noah could not have been saved from all the flood. Today's other tribbers are telling us that Lot could not have been spared from all the fire and brimstone. How are they telling us this lie? By telling us their version of the lie that the Lord our God does not save from hardship and suffering. They tell us we "need" to go through part or all of the tribulation to somehow "shore up" our belief or faith or redemption or whatever their lie happens to be today.

Was the Lord's redemptive work on the cross complete or not? Are we fully "in Christ" today or not? If you are "in Christ" today then you are in the ark prepared for the world today. Nowhere have we been told to build and ark for ourselves like Noah did. Why not? Because the Lord is our ark just like He is everything else we need today. He "is" period. He is our Savior, our Redeemer, our Creator, our Provider, our Healer, etc etc etc.

Today's other tribbers tell us that it is escapist to pray for an escape. Well, they can direct that complaint to the Lord himself because HE is the one who told us to pray that we may be counted worthy to escape ALL of what is coming. Was it "escapist" for Noah to build an ark? Yes, it was. Was is "escapist" for Lot to leave Sodom? Yes, it was. Was it "escapist" for the Israelites to leave the bonds of slavery in Egypt? Yes, it was. Why didn't the Israelites tell the Lord that they needed to stay in Egypt awhile longer so they could "shore up" their faith and belief?

I hope by now you can see what a ridiculous lie the "other tribbers" are trying to sell you. They are trying to sell you that the Lord does not deliver his own from "all" the judgement and wrath that He will deliver on the heads of the wicked. If He did it for Noah will He do it for us? Yes. If He did it for Lot will He do it for us? Yes. If He did it for Israel will He do it for us? Yes.

If judgement and wrath were defined as the sword and famine and death in the books of the bible before Revelation, is it reasonable to define them that way in the book of Revelation? Yes.

Eze 6:12 He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them.

Are the sword and famine and death judgement and wrath? Yes. Where can we find the sword and famine and death in Revelation? Seals 2,3,4 in Revelation 6? Yes. Is that before seal 6 in Revelation 6? Yes.

Conclusion

What's the point of all this? The Lord did a small review with me this morning about the coming escape from all and what He has done in the past. If you take the lie people are trying to sell us today (there is no escape from all) and put it into context in the past it sounds utterly ridiculous to the point where it verges on stupidity. But we are supposed to believe that as truth today? No way. Noah escape all, Lot escaped all, we will escape all if we are found worthy. That is a fact. Not because I said so but because the bible says so. There is no need to 'spiritualize' the bible to arrive at this conclusion.

As if all the proof that has already been provided has not been enough, can you show me where in the bible the Lord judges the righteous with the wicked and unbelieving? You can't find it because its not in there yet the "other tribbers" would have you believe that we will all be swirling around in one big pot of judgement and wrath during the time of Jacob's (not the church's) trouble. The believing remnant (us) will be taking the judgement and wrath (sword, famine, plague, death) on the chin right there along with the wicked. I would be hard pressed to come up with a more un-biblical doctrine or bald faced lie if I tried.

grace and peace

The Bride of Christ

There are many ways that the pre-wrath and post-trib arguments are demolished. One of those many ways is understanding the Jewish wedding customs. Have you ever noticed that the "other tribbers" never want to discuss the rapture/escape from all in the context of the Jewish wedding customs? Why not? They don't do it because the Jewish wedding custom has "Pre-tribulational rapture" written all over it.

If you are in Christ today, you should be watching. Watching for what? Watching for Jesus Christ the bridegroom to come back for us, the bride. Watching today for Jesus is non-sense to the "pre-wrath" and post-trib believers. They will argue with the veins popping out of their foreheads and blue in the face that there is nooooo reason to watch for Jesus today because all kinds of things have to happen first before Jesus can come back for us. They are wrong. Dead wrong.

We are told to watch, repeatedly. When the bridegroom goes back to His Father's house, as Jesus has done, the bride is to start preparing for her married life (1 year) then she is to watch for the unexpected/surprise/"secret" return of the bridegroom just as we are now watching for the unexpected/surprise/"secret" rapture/escape from all as we leave this earth and go to the Father's house where a place has been prepared for us.

Do you think its a coincidence that the Jewish bride is hidden away in the bridal chamber for 7 days after arrival at the Father's house? Not a chance. 7 days, as in a week, as in Daniel's 70th week, as in 7 years of the time of Jacob's trouble, as in the Church is not mentioned through the entire book of Revelation after Revelation 3 kind of hidden.

The church is specifically mentioned...by name in Revelation 2-3. Then the church is purposefully not mentioned again until the end of the book of Revelation. That is not coincidence, and no, the Lord is not using code words for the church throughout the book of Revelation, why should He? He mentioned them by name in Revelation 2-3, why the need to call the church anything but the church after Revelation 3? The church is not mentioned by name after Revelation 3 because she is hidden in her bridal chamber.

Jesus said that we should be watching. We are the bride of Christ, what should we be watching for? For the bridegroom. If we are hidden away in the bridal chamber for 7 years while the time of Jacob's trouble is unfolding on earth, would that be consistent with us being commanded to pray for the escape from all that is coming on the earth in Luke 21:34-36? Yes, that would be consistent. Would being hidden away in the bridal chamber also be consistent with the promise to be kept from the hour of trial that is coming on all the earth? Yes, that too would be consistent. Would being hidden for 7 years in the bridal chamber be consistent with not being destined for wrath as we are told in 1 Thes 5:9? Yes, that too would be consistent.

Would being taken before the 7 years of Jacob's trouble be consistent with "Wherefore comfort one another with these words."-1 Thes 4:18 immediately after the rapture/harpazo/escape is explained to us? Yes, that too would be consistent. The Lord does not write confusion or non-sense. We are human beings that He created, do you think He understands how we think and act? Yes, He does understand us, and when He writes to us about the harpazo "catching away" rapture escape, He does so because it makes sense to us that not having to go through the time of Jacob's trouble, as we see the world about to enter it, is a comfort to us.

It is utter rubbish, complete non-sense to tell someone that they are about to go through hell on earth, and oh by the way, sometime around the end of it you'll be pulled out of it, so be comforted by that thought.....that kind of reasoning is utter trash, complete non-sense because it makes no sense to any human except those that may be mentally deranged or demon possessed.

If you are "in Christ" today, you should be very very encouraged. We have not been told to watch for the anti-christ, we have been told to watch for Jesus Christ, our bridegroom and savior. We would do well to format the Jewish wedding custom onto our brains. Jesus explained His return to us in terms of a wedding, bride and bridegroom for a reason. The truth about the Lord's return is in plain sight, but so many people refuse to take it at face value because they are determined that they will take part in the time of Jacob's trouble. Who are we to argue with them? If they believe that there is no reason to watch for the return of Jesus today, who is our bridegroom, who are we to argue with them? Those who have no revelation of being the bride of Christ, likely are not the bride of Christ. How could they be? Can you imagine a Jewish bride taking part in all the preparatory parts of the wedding custom then forgetting to watch for the Bridegroom afterwards? That defies all sound reasoning:

Jeremiah 2:32

Does a maiden forget her jewelry, a bride her wedding ornaments? Yet my people have forgotten me, days without number. ... Does a bride hide her wedding dress?

We were told to watch:

Mark 13:35 "Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the ...

... Watch therefore: for ye know not when the lord of the house cometh, whether at even, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or in the morning; ... //bible.cc/mark/13-35.htm - 17k

Matthew 25:13 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the ...

... Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour. ... Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. ... //bible.cc/matthew/25-13.htm - 15k

Matthew 24:42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on ...

... Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. ... Watch therefore: for you know not what hour your Lord does come. ... //bible.cc/matthew/24-42.htm - 15k

Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able ...

... Watch therefore, praying at every season, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things which are about to come to pass, and to stand before the ... Matt 25 tells us all about the bridegroom coming. We are told about the wise and foolish virgins. The foolish virgins brought no oil with their lamps. Oil is necessary for light and light is necessary to watch. The foolish virgins were not prepared to watch for Jesus to return for them. There are many people today, many who call themselves Christians who are not watching for the Lord's return today. They are the foolish virgins, prominent among them are the pre-wrath and post-trib teachers, but there are many others. The wise virgins take Jesus, the bridegroom at His word. He commanded us to watch, so we are watching, today and everyday. We who are the bride of Christ, have been through the arrangement and preparation phases of the wedding ceremony. We are not confused about who we are, or what is next. After the arrangement and the preparation comes the fetching of the bride. Those of us who are watching what is happening in the world see precursors of Revelation 6 written all over it. War, death, famine, signs in the sun moon and stars., movement of the earth's crust, its all there. FEMA just ordered 1 billion dollars worth of freeze dried food, the elite of this world have looted the economies of the world on purpose, knowing that people would riot, but also knowing that something is coming that will make the rioting dissapear. There are comets incoming to close orbits of the earth right now. There have been recent discoveries of large magnetic fields in space that NASA calls "fluff" because according to their faulty science, it shoud'nt be there. A large new planet has been discovered in the outer reaches of our solar system and its headed our way. Why don't you hear about this from the propaganda press? Because they want to you to work until the last second then drop dead in place while they hide themselves in the rocks and caves they have dug for themselves to hide from the wrath of the Lamb. Should you fear any of this ^^? Not if you are the bride of Christ. Everything that is coming is wrath, vengeance and judgement for the world, not the bride. The church has been through many tribulations on this earth. The vast majority of the church has lived and died in the past, only this last generation is seeing the fulfillment of the book of Revelation. If the vast majority of the church was tested and tried in the tribulations of life apart from the tribulation, does it make any sense that we, the last generation would be tried and tested differently? Where can anyone find in the bible that all of our forefathers in the faith would be tried and tested differently than this last generation of the church? You won't find it anywhere in the bible. We will have tribulation in this life, we were told that, and all of us have experienced that. Nowhere in the bible will you find that we who are just as much the church as our brothers who passed before us are to be tried and tested differently because we belong to the church at the end of the age. The church ages are all listed in Rev 2-3. Do you see the abomination that causes desolation, seals or trumpets or vials anywhere in there? I don't. What I do see is a faithful weak church and an apostate church at the end of the age. The faithful patient weak church is promised to be kept from the testing and trial coming on the entire world. Is that consistent with everything else we've discussed about the pre-tribulation, pre-flood, pre-time of Jacob's trouble rapture/harpazo/escape? YES The Word of God is like a puzzle. There are many puzzle pieces that must fit together to form the picture that the Lord intended for us to see. Many of todays preachers and teachers are attempting to force in pieces where they do not belong, therefore they get a royal mess instead of the royal message. These things were written today as a message of comfort and encouragement. We are the bride of Christ, that is a fact. Jesus is the bridegroom, that is a fact. Jesus explained His return for us in terms of a wedding, and He was Jewish so that means it was explained in terms of a Jewish wedding ceremony. If Jesus explained His return this way, that is how we should seek our understanding. The next step of the wedding is for Jesus to come back for us and take us to the Father's house. As we see the seals of Rev 6 being prepared to open, we should rejoice that we will be hidden away from them. Jesus opened the seals, the book came from the Father's hand. The wrath that is released from those seals is the wrath of the Lamb and we have not been appointed to it. Lift your head up and look up because we see "all these things" beginning to happen...our redemption draws nigh. Luke 21:28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and ... ... So when all these things begin to happen, stand and look up, for your salvation is near!" grace and peace

Expect the Very Best From the Lord

I was just on my knees in prayer and this one came across my mind and I had to write it down before I forgot. The Lord has peppered my mind with this phrase over a series of weeks now and it is only now that I am posting it.

This goes hand in hand with the last post here about the character of God and the pre-tribulation rapture of the saints. Somewhere along the way, someone, some organization, some spirit sold people on a bizarre and sick view of our God. At a time when the world is suffering incredibly, should we not expect the very BEST from our Lord? If not, why not? This really gets to the heart of the matter. What is your view of this God we read about in the bible? Do you really know Him? If you do not really know Him, then you really won't know what to expect from Him. Are you still with me here?

I need to say it again right here, expect the best from our Lord. If you are "in Christ" and at peace with Him, you should expect our Father's mercy, kindness and generosity. I would advise you to couple this expectation with an extreme sense of humility, thanksgiving and praise or your expectation might turn into demand and then you'll be in trouble (many today find themselves in that position).

We are children of the Most High God, do you have any idea what that means? We are inheritors of the Kingdom, along with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, can you wrap your mind around that? We will be seated WITH CHRIST..ON HIS THRONE in heavenly places, do you have any idea how glorious that will be? Who are we that our Lord has been, and will be so good to us?

Rev 3:20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

There's that door in heaven we see over and over again, Matt 25, Rev 4, here in Rev 3, and other places I cant remember right now :-)

Expecting the very best from the Lord ties in directly with our outlook on rapture timing. Who are these people who expect to go through the tribulation, do they know the Lord? Really? Intellectual knowledge of the scripture is meaningless. I don't care if you have a PhD, ThD, ABCD or any other degree behind your name, that doesn't mean you know squat about the Lord. Proof? Satan intellectually knows the bible word for word, all of it, and yet he clearly doesn't "get it."

Most people will not make it into heaven. I don't know what the percentage is, I don't know what the numbers are, I just know for a fact that few will make it. How do we know this, re-read Matt 7:13-28, read the Lord's words to the churches in Rev 2-3 and the entire history of Israel. Its always a remnant that is saved. The Word says that our God would have all men to be saved, unfortunately, men choose other paths for themselves.

Expect the very best from the Lord.

Noah did not spend one second treading water during the flood. Lot did not brush a single fiery ember off his clothes when Sodom burned to the ground. We should expect the EXACT same experience for ourselves here in these last days. In Luke 17 and Matt 24 our Lord tells us that His coming will be EXACTLY like it was in the days of Noah and Lot. The stories of Noah and Lot involved the righteous being spared the judgement that came upon the wicked instead.

Expect the very best from the Lord.

Noah and Lot were not even in the age of grace as we are now. Noah and Lot did not have the Son of God advocating for them at the Father's right hand as we do now. Noah and Lot were not Spirit indwelt believers as we are now. So again, why should we not expect to escape the fiery tribulation that lies ahead of us?

Expect the very best from the Lord.

Many people claim to know the Lord, but they do not know Him. Another more incriminating way to say it is, He does not know them:

Matt 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

These many call themselves christians today. These many teach all kinds of doctrines that will not benefit themselves or those who hear them. These people cannot judge what is written in the Word of God correctly because the fear and knowledge of the Lord IS the beginning of wisdom and understanding. If they don't know Him, they have no understanding, and no understanding means they have no correct interpretation.

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding.

Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

I can tell you that with all my heart, I am expecting the very best from the Lord. What's happening outside is secondary. Its whats happening inside of us that is primary. The Lord has been very good to me and my family. That does not mean I am special, it means HE IS FAITHFUL. What is written here is for you, to edify in accordance with the Word which tells us:

Romans 14:19
Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification

There is an escape from all coming (Luke 21:36). There is an event coming that will be EXACTLY like the escapes of Noah and Lot who did not for a second have to deal with the judgements that came on the wicked in their day. I don't care what you call it, how you twist it, or how many 200 page e-books you write, if I have the same experience that Noah and Lot had, I did "escape all."

grace and peace

Debunking Objections to the Pre-Trib Rapture

The "other tribbers" have a multi faceted problem in their attempt to prove the Pre-trib rapture of the church wrong. They have to overcome:

1. The preponderance of scriptural evidence
2. The purpose of the tribulation
3. The nature of our God

The purpose of the tribulation was covered in the previous post. The bottom line there is-there is no reason whatsover for the church to be involved in the Daniel's 70th week. We weren't here in the first 69 weeks, we won't be here for the 70th week.

The purpose of this post is to address item 3 in the list above that we hear little to nothing about: the nature of our God.

Somewhere along the line, someone began to sell people on the idea that we have some kind of sourpuss, cosmic killjoy kind of God in the sky that enjoys seeing His people suffer. If that were true, that we did serve that kind of God, then perhaps the "other tribbers" might have a better argument.

As I read the bible, and I look back at my own life's testimony, here's what I see of the God of the bible:

1. He is longsuffering, putting up with my waywardness well beyond what I deserve to bring me around to His way through kindness and grace.

2. He is kind, tender, merciful and generous. Indeed He never puts on our shoulders any burden that is more than we can handle, though at times He has tested my strength and faith to the very last ounce.

3. He means what He says. Read the bible like a little child and I assure you that you will be much better off than any of the so called christian scholars of our day. If the Lord said it, He meant it. There is no need to write a 200 page book to explain simple lines of scripture. For example, if the Lord said there would be an escape from all, there will be an escape from all. No need for long lectures or 3day long debates or 200+ page books to explain or clarify what the Lord meant. It means what it would mean to a child.

4. He wants the very best for His children. Read Isaiah 54 for a glimpse into the character and nature of our God. He wants the very best for His children.

Think of our Lord's nature like a little child. If you were a child in a house with an older brother, and that older brother was always constantly getting into trouble with your father, would you expect your Father to punish you for the transgressions of your older brother? No, no reasonable child would expect that. We are the younger child (the church) and Israel is our older brother who to this day rejects Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

Our God is a loving God, but He is also just. A righteous judge does not punish the innocent. The bible defines innocence differently than the world does. Innocence is being free from sin, which means covered by the blood that Jesus shed for us. The church by definition is a blood bought prize. Our sins have been removed from us as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103). Nobody who is on the narrow path that leads to life, who is covered by the blood of Jesus "needs" to go through any part of Daniel's 70th week.

The story of Noah shows us the Lord's character and His coming for us will be exactly like the story of Noah. If Noah escaped all of the flood, so will we. If Lot escaped all of the fire that fell on Sodom, so will we escape all the judgement coming to the world soon.

grace and peace

More Evidence of a Pre-Trib Rapture/Escape From All of the Church

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The Lord our God has a purpose for everything He does. The tribulation is no different, there is a purpose for the tribulation/70th week of Daniel. To understand the escape from all/rapture of the church it is helpful to understand what it is we are escaping. We are escaping the 70th week out of 69 weeks that have nothing whatsoever to do with the church. Make sense?

The church wasn't around for the first 69 weeks so why exactly is it that the church "must" be around for the 70th week? The "other tribbers" have no legitimate answer for this, just excuses.

The purpose of the tribulation/Daniels 70th week is spelled out in detail by the Lord. What is the purpose of the tribulation?

1. to finish the transgression
2. to make an end of sins
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy
6. to anoint the most Holy

As we look at this list it becomes very apparent that the church has no place whatsoever in the purpose outlined. For example "to finish the transgression" what does the church and "finish the transgression" have in common? Nothing..we have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, Israel has not

Next? To make an end of sins. Again, when Jesus died on the cross for us and we accept what He did for us all our sins are washed away (provided we remain in Him, but thats a topic for another day).

Next? To make reconciliation for iniquity? This one should be like a 100ft pine tree slapping you across the face, again, what exactly did Jesus do on the cross for us? If it wasn't to make reconciliation for our iniquity then what was it?

4,5,6 all are the capstones at the end of the tribulation.

So again, we see no place for the church, no purpose for the church, no reason whatsoever for the church to take part in the 70th week of 69 weeks appointed for THY PEOPLE, that is, the people of Israel. The other tribbers cannot accept any of this so they begin to make excuses..yea but! they say world without end.

Why is it that the other tribbers are so hell bent on entering the tribulation and taking everyone and anyone they can with them? Is it because deep down inside they feel that they need the tribulation? Is there a witness inside of them that tells them they are on a collision course with the tribulation? There is no evidence these people can be shown to change their mind, and I don't think their mind should be changed, why?

It pains me to say this, but most people are not right with the Lord today, therefore they are not ready for the pre-tribulation rapture. We are told in Matt 7:14-28 that only a few are going to make it into heaven. We have the historical record of Israel being destroyed by the Lord over and over again with only a remnant being saved. We have Noah, the only family in the known world who escaped the flood. We have Lot the only man (with 2 daughters) to escape Sodom. The pattern is established. Why else do you think the Lord preemtively asked when He comes to earth will He find faith?

Luke 18:8 ... Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

We all know that the Lord is not pleased that most people will perish. He has been warning this world for years now, He continues to warn the people of this world day in and day out. The Lord's warning and discipline are a blessing. One could argue that with the events surrounding us today, with the world plunging into the greatest depression, we are in the outer bands (using hurricane terminology) of the tribulation storm now.

grace and peace