Not Destined for Wrath

There's a group of people who call themselves "pre-wrath" who teach that everyone will go through roughly 60% or more of the tribulation. They teach that the seals listed in Rev 6 are not "wrath" or at least not the "wrath of God." The teach that even though our Lord himself is the only one worthy of opening the seals, somehow the seals are the "wrath of man" or the "wrath of satan" both of which are complete fabrications found nowhere in the bible.

What you can find in the bible is what the wrath of God is, and who its not for. God's wrath is not for the church, we know and understand that. So let's look at the opening salvo of the tribulation starting in Rev 6:

And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The pre-wrath teacher tells you that God's wrath does'nt start until the sixth seal is broken, yet I see absolutely nothing in Rev 6 that would indicate that somehow a transition took place from seal 1-seal 6. We use the bible to interpret the bible right? Not so called "scholars" or inventors by the name of "rosenthal" but the bible to interpret the bible. With that in mind, what does the bible say about what God's wrath is?

Ezekiel 6 :11 “Thus says the Lord GOD, ‘Clap your hand, stamp your foot and say, “Alas, because of all the evil abominations of the house of Israel, which will fall by sword, famine and plague! 12 “He who is far off will die by the plague, and he who is near will fall by the sword, and he who remains and is besieged will die by the famine. Thus will I spend My wrath on them. 13 “Then you will know that I am the LORD, when their slain are among their idols around their altars, on every high hill, on all the tops of the mountains, under every green tree and under every leafy oak—the places where they offered soothing aroma to all their idols. 14 “So throughout all their habitations I will stretch out My hand against them and make the land more desolate and waste than the wilderness toward Diblah; thus they will know that I am the LORD.”’”

Could the Lord be any more clear here? sword=wrath, famine=wrath, death=wrath
Gosh, what were those seals in Rev 6 again?

Seal 2-a great red horse given a what? A GREAT sword.....that my friends is called wrath^^see Ezekiel for details

Seal 3-famine...that my friends, is called wrath..see Ezekiel for details

Seal 4-all of the above plus death from beasts and more general death from death-that my friends, is called wrath..see Ezekiel for details

Ezekiel 5 Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the LORD have spoken it in my zeal, when I have accomplished my fury in them. 14 Moreover I will make thee waste, and a reproach among the nations that are round about thee, in the sight of all that pass by. 15 So it shall be a reproach and a taunt, an instruction and an astonishment unto the nations that are round about thee, when I shall execute judgments in thee in anger and in fury and in furious rebukes. I the LORD have spoken it. 16 When I shall send upon them the evil arrows of famine, which shall be for their destruction, and which I will send to destroy you: and I will increase the famine upon you, and will break your staff of bread: 17 So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee: and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it.

Famine has nothing to do with the wrath of man or Satan, the Lord our God sends it as judgement and wrath...read it for yourself. Seal 4, death from beasts? Yea, once again, read Ezekiel, use the bible to interpret the bible, death from beasts is God's wrath. Please notice these are specific judgements spoken against the people of Israel. Nowhere and I mean nowhere in the bible do you hear these judgements EVER spoken against the church, ever. So once again, we're back to the fact that Rev 5 shows rewarded, redeemed men in heaven and Rev 6......all of it, from seal 1 onward is wrath, and the church is not destined for wrath.

Satan comes to kill steal and destroy. If they can steal your hope from you, they will.

grace and peace

Get Ready For the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church

Let's continue to read english and greek the way it is written, not twisted to fit preconceived notions:

Luke 17:26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Why did the Lord give us the examples of Noe and Lot here? For a reason? Uh...YEA
What happened in the days of Noe and Lot? The were PHYSICALLY SEPARATED FROM THE DESTRUCTION, and then, ONLY THEN did destruction fall. Those who argue that we have to suffer the torments of the tribulation for some reason or other, in essence change the stories of Lot and Noe from them being removed BEFORE the destruction to them being removed half-way through it, or after it was done wreaking its havok, but THAT'S NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IS IT? Plain english here, no twisting, no linguistic aerobics, repeat after me:

NOE AND LOT WERE REMOVED BEFORE THE DESTRUCTION
NOE AND LOT WERE REMOVED BEFORE THE DESTRUCTION
NOE AND LOT WERE REMOVED BEFORE THE DESTRUCTION
NOE AND LOT WERE REMOVED BEFORE THE DESTRUCTION

What part of ESCAPE ALL, don't people understand? Lk21:36
What part of KEPT FROM THE HOUR OF TRIAL don't people understand? Rev3:10
What part of removed BEFORE the destruction don't people understand?Luke 17:26-30

Is plain english not plain enough? Look those words up in your greek lexicons and the greek makes an even more rock solid case for the pre-tribulation rapture.

But there's so much more:

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be paralambano (par-al-am-ban'-o: to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation), and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be paralambano (par-al-am-ban'-o: to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation), and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be paralambano (par-al-am-ban'-o: to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation), and the other left

παραληφθησεται verb - future passive indicative - third person singular paralambano par-al-am-ban'-o: to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn -- receive, take (unto, with).

This is the rapture of the church, What is Luke 17:26-37 telling us? Before the destruction we will be removed. How is it going to happen? People will be doing normal daily things, then they will be "received near, in a familiar and intimate way" that's what paralambano means, look it up. Notice what the bible DOES NOT SAY, it does not say people will be hiding in a cave then be raptured, it does not say they will be running from the anti-christ and be raptured, it does not say they will be laying half dead with their starving family in a field somewhere then be raptured, it says they will be doing NORMAL THINGS when they are raptured. Only the pre-tribulation rapture fits with the Word of God's description of when the rapture will occur, BEFORE THE TRIBULATION. Since people will be doing 'normal' things like laying in a bed, preparing food or working a field, this leads to another question, how many 'normal' days are left? Judging by the events I see in the world around us, NOT MANY. So what does that mean? Get ready, be sanctified and holy for the bridegroom approaches. Please pray for all the brothers, grace and peace

What the Rapture Isn't

Matt 24:29
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This, 100% positively is NOT the rapture. Proof? What's happening here?

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1. ANGELS are GATHERING 2. From WHERE? gather together his elect from the four winds, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER. You see anything in there about anyone on the EARTH? I don't. I see a GATHERING from the FOUR WINDS OF HEAVEN. Where's the whole idea of people going/moving/translating from EARTH to HEAVEN here. I sure don't see it. Once again those who insist that this is the rapture have to twist the scipture to say something that IT DOES'NT SAY. The rapture is a translation from EARTH to heaven NOT a gathering from the four winds of heaven. Whatever that "gathering" is, it is a gathering of some "elect" that are already in heaven, NO MENTION OF EARTH. Kind of important omission don't you think?

Compare to:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 [15] According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. [16] For the Lord himself will COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ WILL RISE first. [17] After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Matthew 24:29 makes NO mention of anyone "rising" or being "caught up" that's a HUGE difference in word usage from 1 Thess 4. Either the Holy Spirit made a mistake or people are (surprise) twisting the bible to make it say something it clearly does not say.

Compare:

(gather elect from four winds of HEAVEN)

to

(the Lord himself will COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN and we will be CAUGHT UP)

Two completely different events, different words are used for a reason. This may sound cruel, but people who argue that Matt 24:29 = the rapture event in 1 Thess 4:15 need to learn how to read english, or greek. Words mean what they do as written, not as people wish/hoped they meant.

grace and peace

Paul Taught a Pre-Trib Rapture

When the Restraint is Removed

Jamma Mokhriby

Part IV

In our opinion, one of the most controversial passages in the New Testament debated by adherents of the Post, Mid and Pre-Trib Rapture teachings would have to be II Thessalonians 2:1-8.

The questions and opinions held to by the diverse points of view comes down basically to 3 subjects: the timing and the meaning of the events recorded by the Apostle Paul in verses 1-3 and who is the "Restrainer" of the man of sin in verses 6-7.

Quoting verses 1-2 we read, "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come."

It is generally agreed upon that in verse 2 Paul was assuring the Thessalonians that they were not entering into the day of the Lord's judgment. Fraudulent messages and distressing circumstances surrounding them made them fearful that they were experiencing the time of God's judgment.

It is also largely agreed that Paul is speaking of the time of the Rapture in verse 1 as is described in John 14:1-3 and I Thess. 4:15-18.

Verse 2 begins the debate. Pre-Trib supporters say that while verse 1 unquestionably speaks of the Rapture (which they believe transpires before the Tribulation Period), verse 2 refers to the day of Christ's judgement which begins at the start of the Tribulation when the Lord Jesus opens the first seal of judgment in Revelation 6:1.

It is important to understand that refuters of this interpretation maintain Paul is still speaking about the Rapture in both verse 1 and verse 2.

The pivotal question put forth by the Pre-Trib position concerns the clear reference to the Rapture in verse 1. It is rightly asked, "Why did Paul reassure the Thessalonians in his letter that they had not missed the Rapture?"

The point veiled behind this question is commanding and demands a reflective answer. If Paul had taught the Thessalonians a Mid or Post-Trib Rapture then they would not have had any reason to be confused about having entered the Tribulation. It is logical to deduce by Paul's assurance to them concerning the Rapture that the Thessalonians had been taught a Pre-Trib Rapture.

The Apostle Paul had been their teacher according to verse 5. If Paul wanted to remedy an incorrect Pre-Trib Rapture outlook then verses 1 & 2 would have been transposed in his letter to them. He would have encouraged them to prepare for the judgment day of Christ first and then the gathering together at the Rapture instead of vice-versa.

If the Rapture was something which they did not believe they may have missed, why then we must ask, was it addressed as their primary concern in verse 1? If verse 2 is still speaking of the Rapture as Pre-Trib opponents contend, then we must accept that the Apostle Paul had no intention of relieving their distress, but instead for some unfathomable reason intended to add even more. Paul would have in essence replaced their hope of deliverance by the Rapture with the terror of someday facing the Great Tribulation.

In contrast, Pre-Trib adherents accept that the obvious purpose of these words penned by Paul is to relieve the anxiety of the Thessalonians by assuring them they had not entered into the Tribulation Period of verse 2 and therefore had not missed the Rapture spoken of in verse 1.

Continuing on to verse 3 in our study of Ch. 2 of II Thessalonians, we must point out that the words, "that day will not come" are not in the original Greek, but are added in by translators to help understand the passage connection to the previous subject.

Quoting verse 3 we read, "Let no one deceive you by any means, for [that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition." The focus is on the day of Christ's judgement.

While studying verse 3 it is helpful to keep the different view points in mind.

The various views of Mid-Tribulationists teach that the Rapture could happen at any time between the start and the conclusion of the 7 year Tribulation Period. Generally we can say that the dominant Mid-Trib position holds that verse 3 is speaking of both the Rapture of verse 1 and the day of Christ in verse 2, and that they are occurring in close proximity at selected points during the Tribulation Period.

Post-Tribulationists who believe that the Rapture takes place during Armageddon are compelled to teach that verse 3 is referring to verse 1 & 2 combined together. They maintain the Rapture will happen at the close of the Tribulation Period as Christ returns.

Returning to verse 3 we find that the Greek word for "falling away" is a matter of considerable debate. Some say this "falling away" is a departure of the Church from the sound doctrines of the Christian faith. Others have said that it must be Israel that is being spoken of. And then there are those who maintain that those being spoken of are neither the Church nor Israel, but false professors of Christianity. Apostates who are exposed after the true Church is removed at the Rapture.

The Greek word for "falling away" is the Greek word "apostasia" where we get our word apostasy from. It is derived from the verb "aphistemi" which means "to do away, depart or remove." Some believe this is a reference to the Rapture.

In verses 18 & 19 in Ch. 2 of II John, the Apostle vividly speaks of the departure of false believers in these last days and gives solid scriptural direction for understanding the "falling away" in our opinion. Verse 3 then reveals to us that the Day of the Lord cannot come until the man of sin (that is the Anti-Christ) is revealed.

Momentarily skipping ahead to verses 6 & 7 it is necessary to point out that these verses speak of a "Restrainer" which must be taken out of the way first before the Anti-Christ can be revealed.

Pre-Trib adherents believe for good reasons that this Restrainer can only be the Church. They also justifiably believe that the Anti-Christ will be revealed at the very start of the Tribulation Period when Christ opens the first seal of the last day's judgments as is prophesied in Revelation 6:1-2. Therefore they come to the sequential conclusion that the Church must be removed before the start of the 7 year Tribulation Period.

Once again the Pre-Trib Rapture supporters main point of argument must be emphasized when realizing that Paul has just informed the Thessalonians in verse 3 that the appointed Restrainer of the most evil ruler of all of history will be removed by the start of the Tribulation Period.

Chapter 1:4-6 of II Thessalonians makes it abundantly clear that the Thessalonians were suffering terrible persecutions and tribulations already and Paul now tells them that evil will soon be unrestrained.

The question must be asked as to exactly what kind of consolation was Paul supposedly giving to the Church in this passage of II Thessalonians?

According to Post and Mid-Trib interpretations, Paul was telling the troubled Thessalonians they should give up their hope of the Lord's appearing for deliverance and that the terrible suffering they were enduring was nothing compared to that which lie in store for when the horrible son of perdition would be revealed.

This is an unacceptable conclusion to Pre-Tribulationists since in verse 2 Paul stressed his desire to offer the Thessalonians the greatest of comfort and deliverance from any doubts.

We now come to verses 6-8 of Ch. 2 of II Thess. Verse 6 is a fascinating, albeit cryptic message. The Thessalonians understood "what" and "who" Paul was speaking of as the 'Restrainer" of the Anti-Christ in verse 7, but we are left to the Lord's leading. Paul writes, "And you know "what" is restraining, that he (the Anti-Christ) may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only "He" who now restrains will do so until "He" is taken out of the way."

Theories as to the identity of this "what" and "who" include, world government, the Archangel Michael, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Church.

Pre-Tribulationists are persuaded that the identity of this mysterious entity described both in neutered impersonal and also personal terms could be none other than the Church or the Holy Spirit.

It is soundly argued that only the Church and the Holy Spirit can fulfill the Restrainer's role of being both a neutered impersonal entity and also a singular male individual at the same time.

This matches perfectly the scriptural portrayal of the Spirit-filled Church as it melds into the Body of Christ. All other choices fail to meet the scripturally required personal/impersonal qualifications of the Restrainer. Thus Pre-Tribulationists conclude that the restraining role of the Church must be removed before the Anti-Christ can make his appearance at the start of the Tribulation Period as is revealed in Rev. 6:1-2 & Dan. 9:27.

The suggestion that the Restrainer is solely the Holy Spirit apart from the Church is refuted by the scriptural necessity for Him to remain on the earth throughout the Tribulation Period because it is only through His ministry that people can be led to salvation in Christ (See I Cor. 12:3).

Pre-Trib Rapture believers point out to those who insist otherwise that Ephesians 1:13-14 establishes that even if the Holy Spirit's presence could ever be removed from the earth, the Church would have to go also since the Holy Spirit indwells the Church as a down payment of their inheritance according to the Word of God.

Pre-Tribulationists therefore conclude that Paul was faithful and consistent in his intention to alleviate what was troubling the Church when he wrote to them in Ch. 2 of II Thess. and in his offer of hope to future generations. He first assured them in verses 1 & 2 that they had not misunderstood his original teaching of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture and therefore had not entered into the Tribulation Period as many had come to believe.

In verse 3 he reassures them that the Tribulation Period can not take place until after the falling away and the revealing of the Anti-Christ.

In verses 6-8 Paul concludes his unwavering words of assurance by reemphasizing that an entity is holding back the Anti-Christ from making his appearance (an entity which they will recognize has been removed) and that that entity must be taken out of the way first before the day of the Lord will start. That entity can only be the blood-washed Church of Jesus Christ.

Our purpose in this message is to present the solid ground which supporters of the Pre-Trib Rapture stand upon in their blessed hope. We do not agree with Pre-Tribulationists who take Matthew 24:48-49 out of its context and apply it to Mid and Post Tribulationists.

The evil servant spoken of in this passage of Scripture was not involved in the study of the timing of the Rapture, but was fostering an attitude of complacency in order to cast off restraint. The evil servant's desire was to indulge in his sin unencumbered.

Also we are in disagreement with Post and Mid-Tribulationists who say Pre-Tribulationists are going to cause believers to cast off their faith if they should enter the Tribulation. This accusation goes directly against the Word of God found in I John 2:18-19.

There we are told that deserters from the faith are apostates who are manifested for what they always had been - non-believers. True believers, whether they be Pre, Mid or Post-Tribulationists are abiding in these evil days together no matter what position one holds to on the timing of the Rapture. What happens to one will happen to all.

We are convinced that we are at the threshold of the start of the Tribulation Period and that an exercise in love between the divergent groups at this point would demonstrate a sober wisdom in the Lord.

We believe without a shadow of a doubt that the Pre-Trib Rapture teaching will be proven correct in the very near future.

Are you ready to meet the Lord through Rapture or death? Believe on the Living Lord Jesus Christ this moment for the forgiveness of your sins through His shed blood and this very moment you will receive eternal life.

Soon the trumpet will sound and the dead and living in Christ will shed their fallen natures like polluted garments, never to be put on again. We pray that you all will be ready.
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