Pre-Tribulation Proof

The evidence in the bible for the pre-tribulation harpazo/escape from all is overwhelming.

This morning I was re-reading Luke 17 and this part of it stands out to me like a neon sign:

Luke 17:29but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

It is so easy to lose sight of the critical details in the bible that point specifically to what the Lord is trying tell us. What was the driver that set in motion the destruction of Sodom? What was the sign to the wicked in Sodom that destruction was about to take place? The answer to both was Lot leaving Sodom. "On the day that Lot went out from Sodom" is how the Lord coaches His Word to us so we will understand completely what He is trying to tell us.

We know that an event is coming again that will be just like the days of Lot and Noah. On this future day we know that the day the righteous physically leave the place of destruction, then destruction will fall.

We don't have to get creative with our interpretation of this event like the pre-wrath and post-trib teachers do. They have to spiritualize the Word of God in an attempt to make it say something that it does not say. They have to make pieces fit into the puzzle in places where the pieces clearly do not fit. We do not have those problems. We know from the one sentence we have here in Luke 17:29 that:

1. The righteous are physically, bodily leaving the place of destruction

2. We know that the destruction will not fall before the righteous are physically removed

3. We know that in the days of Lot, one city was burned to the ground. It was only one city so Lot had plenty of room in the earth to escape from that one city's destruction. In Noah's day, the destruction was global so there was only one direction Noah could go (physically) to escape the destruction, and that was up. He had to rise up above the earth to escape the world wide destruction. That is biblical fact. We know that the destruction that is coming will also be global in scale. Because that destruction will be global, there will be no place on the face of the earth to escape from it, so once again somehow we must go "up" to escape this destruction. One of many vexing questions to the pre-wrath and post-trib teachers is this: how exactly is it that we will go "up" to escape this coming global destruction?

Being "kept" on the face of the earth is the only explanation the "other tribbers" can give us, but once again they have to deny the face value of the Word of God to arrive at their faulty conclusions. For us to be "kept" (greek "ek" in Rev 3:10) on the face of this earth during a time of global destruction would be the equivalent of Lot being "kept" in the midst of Sodom while fire was raining down on it. Is that how we read the story of Lot? No, it is not. The idea is a laughable absurdity. Again in the story of Noah, for Noah to be "kept" on the face of the earth during a global destruction would have meant he would have been floating along IN the waters of the flood, not above them:

Genesis 7:17

For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. Where was the escape from the global destruction in Noah's day? It was HIGH ABOVE THE EARTH. No need for literary creativity here. No need to spiritualize the Word of God here. The "other tribbers" are sorely vexed to explain to us the pre-tribulation believers how exactly it is that this time we will be "kept" high above the earth without the harpazo. We have already demonstrated that somewhere "up" is the only direction to go during a time of global destruction. Also remember that the Lord used the stories of Noah and Lot as our context for understanding what is going to happen. If someones interpretation strays from the context of the stories of Noah and Lot, their theories default to non-sense. What have we learned from this little detail in Luke 17:29? We know for a fact that the coming destruction is set in motion by the departure of the righteous. No fancy interpretation skills needed to arrive at this conclusion. That conclusion comes from a straightforward, literal childlike reading of the Word of God. We also know that we are the bride of Christ waiting for the return of our Bridegroom. We also know that the fall feast days are the only feast days waiting for prophetic fulfillment. We also know that we have been commanded to watch for our Lord's return, not the tribulation, not the anti-christ, not anything else written in the pages of Revelation. We have been ordered to watch for the return of Jesus Christ. Anyone telling you some other story today is preaching a "different gospel" from the one we have been taught in the pages of scripture and they should therefore be summarily dismissed. The gospel is the good news of Jesus Christ. Part of that good news is that He is coming back for us. We are to encourage each other with these Words. We are to comfort one another with these Words. The Lord Himself gave us the words "comfort" and "harpazo" in the same passage of scripture: 1 Thess 4:17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words. Comfort and the harpazo go hand in hand. That is in extreme juxtaposition with the doctrine of demons taught as the "pre-wrath" and post-tribulational escape from nothing we hear so much about today. This writer finds no comfort whatsoever from contemplating which way the anti-christ is going to sever my head from my body in the days ahead. The doctrine of demons pre-wrath and post-trib teachings tell you that probable death is what awaits you. Does that comfort you? You connect the dots. There is an escape from all coming. Our bridegroom is coming back for His bride. The fall feasts will be prophetically fulfilled. There is an event that will provide great hope and comfort today for those who have faith in the Words written about it. This writer is not the author who told you to be comforted by the thought of the harpazo, JESUS is that author. Be comforted, be encouraged, be hopeful, be pure and holy. Be a wise virgin who has extra oil for her lamps, prepared to watch for her bridegroom for however long He takes to appear. These are the thoughts this writer has been impressed with today. grace and peace

A Complete Dismantling of the "Pre-Wrath" Rapture Doctrine

If you knew nothing else about the "pre-wrath" rapture but that they teach willful disobedience, you know enough to reject it outright. The pre-wrath teachers teach you that there is no reason to watch for the Lord's return today. That fact, in and of itself kills the "pre-wrath" rapture idea, it is dead on arrival. The Lord stressed repeatedly, watch, watch WATCH for my return. The pre-wrath teacher is given no leave anywhere to begin watching whenever they feel like it, or when their doctrine prescribes for them to start watching. When a person in authority gives you a command with no preconditions, like "watch" that means now, not tomorrow, not the next day, not a mid-trib, not near the end of the trib, not post-trib...NOW. The pre-wrath teachers and preachers do not watch now and they teach others that it is foolishness to do so.

So, at best the pre-wrath doctrine teaches willful disobedience, they know they were commanded to watch...now, and they refuse to do so. At worst, the pre-wrath doctrine teaches believers to commit the unpardonable sin. What is the unpardonable sin? Its attributing the acts of the Holy Spirit to Satan (Mark 3, Matt 12). How do the pre-wrath teachers commit the unpardonable sin? They teach the "wrath of Satan" doctrine, attributing the opening and operation of the seals in Rev 6 to Satan. Remember, no one in heaven, on earth or below the earth was found worthy to open the seals except Christ alone. And yet the pre-wrath teachers tell us that the seals are "Satan's wrath?" Nowhere in the bible will you find a single shred of evidence that links Satan full of wrath and the opening of the seals...nowhere, period.

As if that were not enough, we know for a fact that in seals 1-4 the riders of the horses were empowered, by the Lord (who opened the Seals? ONE was found worthy..). The first 4 seals include at a minimum 1.5 Billion people being put to death by sword, famine, plague and the beasts of the earth. Here, again, not only do the per-wrath teachers attribute the impact of these seals to the working of Satan, the compound their sin by denying the Lord's purpose in opening the seals. They tell us that seals 1-5 are not the Lord's wrath. Really? Not His wrath? Please, I challenge any pre-wrath teacher to find a single scripture in the bible to prove that the death, famine and plague we find in seals 2,3,4 are not the Lord's wrath. I can tell you that they cannot produce a single scripture, not one. 2-3 witnesses to verify truth in the bible right? Where are their witnesses? They have not one....

There are witnesses however that prove that death, famine and plague ARE the Lord's wrath:

Ezekiel 6:11“‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Strike your hands together and stamp your feet and cry out “Alas!” because of all the wicked and detestable practices of the house of Israel, for they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. 12He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them.

Job 19:29 you should fear the sword yourselves; for wrath will bring punishment by the sword, and then you will know that there is judgment."

Ezekiel 14:19

"Or if I send a plague into that land and pour out my wrath upon it through bloodshed, killing its men and their animals, Please, lets let the bible interpret the bible shall we? And let the witnesses that the pre-wrath teachers do not have come forth to defend them from the biblical witnesses that come forth to accuse them! The bible clearly states that the sword, the plague and famine ARE the wrath of God, and without witnesses what would the pre-wrath teachers have us believe 1.5 BILLION people dead at the hand of the Lord is exactly? If its not His wrath, then what is it? A friendly conversation? A slight nudge? A tap on the shoulder and a kind whisper in the ear? 1.5 BILLION DEAD....let it sink in.....let the willfull disobedience and the unpardonable sin they commit sink in... and we have not finished yet.. Last night the Lord asked me a question about the "pre-wrath" teachers claim that the wrath of God does not start until seal 6 found in Revelation 6. He asked me:

who said this? (Rev 6)--->16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Did Jesus say "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb?" NO, He did not.

Did any of the prophets say "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb?" NO, they did not.

Did any of the apostles say " "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb?" NO, they did not.

Did any member of the church from highest to the lowest say "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb?" NO, they did not.

Then who DID say "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb?" The unbeliever, the Christ rejecting man are those who are exclaiming that the wrath of the Lamb is upon them. And the pre-wrath teacher is trying to convince us that the words of those who have rejected Christ can be relied on to explain God's plan to us? That assertion is ridiculous and many many illustrations from the bible stand in testimony against it. For example:

Satan quoted the bible by verse to Jesus during the temptation in the desert. Are we to use Satan's words as a benchmark to interpret what the Lord's message to us is during the temptation? No, that would be ridiculous, just as the pre-wrath explanation that the words of Christ rejecting men hiding in caves from the face of the Lord can explain to us what the Lord's message to us is in Revelation or anywhere else in the bible.

How about the parable of the foolish rich man in Luke 12:16-21? The foolish rich man spoke from his mouth all kinds of wonderful plans for himself. Are we to take the foolish rich man's words as fact to explain to ourselves the Lord's Word anywhere else in the bible? Again, that thought is ridiculous. Those who are hiding in the rocks from the face of the Lord are fools, so explain to me why exactly we should take their word as though it was the Word of God that the wrath of God starts then? WHO said the wrath of God was upon them?????? Would you say that the Christ rejecting fools in the caves misjudged our Lord's plan just a bit? <--That would be the understatement of the ages.....And according to the pre-wrath teachers, preachers, and believers we are to base our understanding of the book of Revelation on the words of Christ rejecting fools hiding in caves? Really? That's what they are trying to sell you....That idea is at the very heart of their doctrine. A doctrine that has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

The doctrine of devils known as the pre-wrath rapture now stands exposed, and destroyed. But why stop destroying their doctrine while it is a flaming wreck, lets shoot for their doctrine in ashes.

So far, we have laid out the facts that at a minimum, the pre-wrath teacher and believer choose to wilfully disobey the Lord's command to watch now, today for His return. At the worst, those who attribute the working of the Holy Spirit to Satan are guilty of the unpardonable sin. In addition, their centerpiece argument that the wrath of God begins at seal 6 has been completely debunked by the question: "who is saying that the wrath of God has come?" Jesus did not say that, those who reject Jesus said that....

According to the pre-wrath rapture advocates, the church escapes what, 10% of the horrors of Revelation? 15%? 20%? How much of the Lords initiated pain on this world are they telling us we will have to dodge in the days ahead and does it fit with what Jesus tells us in Matt 24 and Luke 17? Did Noah experience any physical tribulation during his escape into the ark? Any? No, none, thats a 100% escape, which also means Noah escaped ALL....How about Lot, how many fiery embers landed on Lot? None, again, thats a 100% escape, which also means Lot ecaped ALL. The pre-wrath teachers tell us that we the beloved bride of Christ are going to go through a hell on earth delivered by our Lords own hands. That's a great way to start out an eternal union isn't it? Isn't that how all bride and groom start their lifelong relationship? The bride does everything she can to win the heart of the groom and in return the groom submits the bride to hell on earth and then they get married?. Again, that is what the pre-wrath crowd is selling you...... Is that what Noah and Lot experienced? How much hell on earth did Noah endure before Noah entered the ark? Zero. How much hell on earth did Lot endure as he was walking out of Sodom? Zero. As it was in the days of Noah and Lot, so too shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man. What part of "escape all" don't these people understand? What does Luke 21:34-36 say? It says pray that you may be counted worthy to escape ALL of what's about to happen. All? Yes, all. What does all mean? How silly do we have to get with these questions to break through the satanic denial leveled against the pre-flood, pre-tribulation, pre-fire and brimstone, pre-wrath, pre-vengeance, pre-judgement rapture/escape from all?

The pre-wrath rapture has been sunk by multiple gaping holes below the waterline of their arguments. How do they defend their willful disobedience and satanic denial of the Lord's purpose in opening the seals? They deny these things the same way the Christ rejecting men hiding themselves in the caves denied that the war, the death, the famine, the plague were all judgements on a disobedient Christ rejecting world and it is only when their last lie and denial, their hidden caves are falling in on their heads that they will finally acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, and their lies and denials are at an end.

grace and peace

Predicting the Future

The bible is very clear regarding what's about to happen. I know there are many people in the world who either 1. don't believe a rapture is going to happen at all or 2. don't believe it will be pre-tribulation. Regardless what they believe, we know what's coming. Let's take a look at what the bible says:

Matt 24:36 'And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers of the heavens -- except my Father only; 37 and as the days of Noah -- so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man; 38 for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, till the day Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they did not know till the flood came and took all away; so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men shall be in the field, the one is received, and the one is left; 41 two women shall be grinding in the mill, one is received, and one is left.

You don't need any phony seminary degree to figure out what the bible is saying here. What's coming is going to happen JUST LIKE THE DAYS OF NOAH. Well, just like the days of Noah is going to upset ALOT of so called churchianity. Why? What do we know about the days of Noah?

1. Business as usual until................n the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, till the day Noah entered into the ark. What happened? It was business as usual until when? THE DAY NOAH ENTERED THE ARK. What does that tell us about the future? Everything is going to be business as usual until the day the righteous enter their "ark". Remember, the Holy Spirit says "and as the days of Noah -- so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man" They are going to be just like each other (the days).

2. The wicked get blindsided-and they did not know till the flood came and took all away. So the righteous go into their "ark" first, just like Noah went into his ark, THEN the wicked get blindsided, just like the flood caught the wicked by surprise in Noah's day.

3. If you are righteous, like Noah, your house gets saved-Genesis 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Genesis 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. Genesis 7:5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.

4. After we enter our "ark" just like Noah, what happens? Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; ... Genesis 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

The righteous go into the ark, then the Lord shuts the door, just like it happened in Noah's day. Gosh that door shutting sounds awfully familiar, where have I seen that before? Oh yea:

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

AND

Matthew 25 :1 'Then shall the reign of the heavens be likened to ten virgins, who, having taken their lamps, went forth to meet the bridegroom; 2 and five of them were prudent, and five foolish; 3 they who were foolish having taken their lamps, did not take with themselves oil; 4 and the prudent took oil in their vessels, with their lamps. 5 'And the bridegroom tarrying, they all nodded and were sleeping, 6 and in the middle of the night a cry was made, Lo, the bridegroom doth come; go ye forth to meet him. 7 'Then rose all those virgins, and trimmed their lamps, 8 and the foolish said to the prudent, Give us of your oil, because our lamps are going out; 9 and the prudent answered, saying -- Lest there may not be sufficient for us and you, go ye rather unto those selling, and buy for yourselves. 10 'And while they are going away to buy, the bridegroom came, and those ready went in with him to the marriage-feasts, and the door was shut; 11 and afterwards come also do the rest of the virgins, saying, Sir, sir, open to us; 12 and he answering said, Verily I say to you, I have not known you. 13 'Watch therefore, for ye have not known the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man doth come.

God told Noah to "come into" the ark, indicating that God was in the ark. (Genesis 7:1)

Rev 4:1 After these things I saw, and lo, a door opened in the heaven, and the first voice that I heard is as of a trumpet speaking with me, saying, 'Come up hither, and I will shew thee what it behoveth to come to pass after these things;


Here's something else to remember about what's coming. If the bible is true, and I believe it is, that as things were during Noah's day, so they will be for us, consider this:

Noah was physically separated from the wicked. The wicked remained where they were, NOAH WENT INTO THE ARK. So much for post-trib and pre-wrath arguments. If they were right, Noah would have been out treading water with the wicked during the flood. Also notice, the Ark floated ABOVE the waters. Wrath was below, Noah was above. So, for all those people who would say that there will be no pre-trib rapture, tell that to Noah, tell that to Jesus. We know what to expect. Physical separation from the wrath that's about to come. If it happened that way for Noah, we can expect it to happen that way for us. We can expect the event before us to take place just the way it did for Noah.

Noah went into an ark, we will go into something like an ark (place of safety)

Noah was physically separated/segregated from the wicked, we will be physically separated/segregated from the wicked

Noah did not tread water with the wicked while they were dying, we will not tread water with the wicked while they are dying

Noah's family went into the ark, our family will go into the ark (i suspect you should pray for them before the 'flood' shows up)

There is no difference between those who mocked Noah's Ark in Genesis, and those who mock the pre-trib rapture today. They were both created for ESCAPE from the wrath to come. Those who want no part in this pre-flood Ark, or pre-trib rapture, bring the flood on their own heads.

Jesus promised us a pre-flood escape when he tells us that it will be for us, just as it was for Noah. He does'nt stop there. He also gives us:

Rev 3: 10 'Because thou didst keep the word of my endurance, I also will keep thee from the hour of the trial that is about to come upon all the world, to try those dwelling upon the earth.

AND

Luke 21:36 watch ye, then, in every season, praying that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.'

Noah was counted worthy to escape the flood in his day. Will you be counted worthy to escape the flood that's about to come on this world in our days? The post-trib and pre-wrath doctrines have been created by an enemy to steal, kill and destroy. Noah DID NOT get on the ark mid-flood, or post-flood THATS A FACT. Open your eyes before its too late.

WAKE UP

grace and peace

The Rapture and the Fall of Saigon

On April 30, 1975, North Viet-namese troops accepted the surrender of Saigon and thus snuffed out the Republic of Vietnam, humiliating Washington in the process. Saigon, within 24 hours, had become Ho Chi Minh City. The surrender of the capital and its prompt renaming--25 years ago this month--became the ultimate symbol of the failure of US policy in Southeast Asia.
For Americans, that day forever will be remembered for the spectacle of overcrowded US helicopters fleeing in a badly timed but well-executed evacuation, their flight to safety contrasting with the terror that gripped thousands of loyal South Vietnamese left to their fates. The media presented hundreds of wrenching scenes-tiny boats overcrowded with soldiers and family members, people trying to force their way onto the US Embassy grounds, Vietnamese babies being passed over barbed wire to waiting hands and an unknown future.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/april2000/0400saigon.asp

You can see people lined up on the roof of this building to get a helicopter ride out of the city while enemy troops closed in on their positions from all sides. We find ourselves in much the same position today. Enemy troops surround us on all sides, and instead of a helicopter ride out of harms way, we've been promised this:

Luke 21:36 watch ye, then, in every season, praying that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.'

Rev 3:10 'Because thou didst keep the word of my endurance, I also will keep thee from the hour of the trial that is about to come upon all the world, to try those dwelling upon the earth.

There are many people today who refuse the Lord's command: "praying that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass"

Why would someone pray to ESCAPE ALL when they argue night and day that THEY WILL NOT ESCAPE ALL?

The Lord promised us an ESCAPE from ALL, and I for one intend to take Him up on it. I pray daily that all the brothers (and sisters), my family, and myself may be counted worthy to escape all. I think someone would have to be mentally challenged not to focus intently on the Lord's promises, especially Luke 21:36, Rev 3:10, 1 Thes 4 etc. Something wonderful is about to happen to those who are "in Christ." For those who argue that there is no pre-trib rapture, you best pray that 1. the Lord forgives you for blowing off his command to pray for escape, and 2. The Lord does not do unto you as you have believed (according to your faith). If you are dead set on diving into the tribulation, perhaps you'll get what you argued for.

Matt 8:13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go, and it will be done for you just as you have believed." And his servant was healed that very hour.

It's time to figure out what you believe and get rooted down deep in it. Things for some of us are going to get fantastically wonderful soon, for others it will be hell on earth. My bets on escaping ALL, what's yours on? grace and peace

More Proof of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Luke 21 talks about things that will be happening in the end times, everything from wars and rumors of wars to Jesus coming in the clouds. Here's more pre-trib proof at the end of Luke 21... after explaing all the things that will happen in the future Jesus says....Luke 21:28 And when these things BEGIN TO COME TO PASS, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

So, let me get this right...we should be looking for our redemption, NOT in the middle of those things that shall come to pass, NOT at the end of those things that shall come to pass, but WHEN THEY BEGIN TO COME TO PASS. THE BEGINNING, NOT THE MIDDLE, NOT THE END, THE BEGINNING. How much more clear could the bible be? If that was'nt enough, immediately after Jesus hammers the point home AGAIN.....

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

How can you "escape all these things that shall come to pass?" Can you "escape all" by going through half of the things that shall come to pass? NO

Can you "escape all" if you go through all of the things that shall come to pass? NO

The ONLY WAY you can "escape all" the things that shall come to pass is if you are taken out AT THE BEGINNING of the things that shall come to pass. I did'nt say it, Jesus did, our redemption comes AT THE BEGINNING. The devil comes to steal kill and destroy. The pre-wrath view was sent to steal men's hope, so was the post-trib teaching. Only the pre-trib view honors God's Word as it is written. After YEARS of endlessly debating mostly pre-wrath believers NOT ONE has been able to refute (without creating "facts" out of thin air) the pre-trib truths in Luke 21, NOT ONE. Pre-trib truths extend well beyond Luke 21, but it has sufficed to pin down opponents here, where there is zero wiggle room. Be watching, be ready, NOW, not at the midpoint of the tribulation, not at the end of the tribulation..NOW, for our redemtion draws nigh....do not allow thieves to steal your hope. Grace and Peace