Zeitgeist-The Movie, Critique

I would like to start by commenting on the underlying agenda of the movie, which appears to be furthering the agenda of tearing down the old framework of the world to assist the implementation of the new framework. In order to have new government, new religion, new thinking etc, the old has to be done away with. Zeitgeist begins with an attack on christianity, moves onto exposing 9/11, then finishes with an explanation of how the FED has destroyed the country. I think they did a good job with their 9/11 and FED work, where the problem lies is their depiction of Christianity.

Problem 1
Time and time again we see "christianity" attacked as if it were one monolithic entity. For example, people look at the historical crimes committed by the Catholic church, and lump all christianity in with catholicism. Are all christians catholic? Along the same lines, the movie mentions "christmas" and easter, Dec 25, and sunday worship as "christian" practices. Last time I opened my bible, I did'nt see easter (except the mistranslated KJV), christmas, sunday worship, or Dec 25 mentioned. Those are all pagan practices, perpetuated by a paganized apostate christianity. Now, to be fair, paganized, apostate, "so called" christianity IS associated with those things, but once again, just because people call themselves christians, does that mean they really are christians? The bible clearly states that many if not most people calling themselves christians today are anything but.

Matt 7:14 tells us that only a few are going to make it into the kingdom of heaven.

again,

Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"
23 And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."

Notice they said "Lord Lord" right? pagans don't call Jesus "Lord" so called christians do..........

Problem 2

Zeitgeist begins the movie by telling us that everything we've ever been told is most likely a lie, then they proceed to use the historical records of those same liars to prove their case against christianity?

Problem 3

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? The Christian God created everything, but Zeitgeist tells us that Christianity is nothing more than an astrological story. That is, the creation is telling us the creator does not exist. If there is no creator then what is the origin of time, space, eternity etc etc etc. Not only must we ask who created all things but who is responsible for all the design we see in the universe? The universe screams at the top of its lungs "random does not work here!" Design, law and order is what makes the universe work.....zeitgeist won't touch that, I wonder why?

The bible tells us that the creation is PROOF of God's existence, the proof of christianity runs through all creation. Does it suprise you that the Creator confirmed His words in the creation? If it does, it should'nt....

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Problem 4

All the pagan religions Zeitgeist compares christianity to are creation centered, christianity is Creator centered. The bible specifically prohibits the worship of created things like the sun and moon, all the religions and deities mentioned in Zeigeist are centered on worship or adoration of the sun/moon.

Problem 5

Use of the "straw man" trick. What's a "straw man?" A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute and attribute that position to the opponent. Often, the straw man is set up to deliberately overstate the opponent's position.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Zeitgeist uses cartoons to depict God and satan deliberately understating them. Zeitgeist mentions God's ten commandments, tells you that you'll be punished in hell if you don't obey them, then speaks of God's love. Very clever. The Creator demands obedience, so does satan, so does your government here on earth. People don't bat an eye when the IRS demands they obey tax law, but when the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE demands obedience, all of the sudden it becomes a problem? Zeitgeist relies heavily on the logical fallacy of the "straw man" to make its point.

Problem 6

Probability and statistics.

A scientist picked out 48 prophecies and determined that the probability of one man randomly fulfilling them all is 1 in 10 to the exponent of 157. That is one followed by 157 zeros..... Your chances of winning a typical lottery jackpot is about 1 in 108. (100,000,000) Yet, Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies.

Concerning his birth Prophesied/Fulfilled
1. Born of the seed of woman Gen 3:15 /Gal 4:4
2. Born of a virgin Isa 7:14 /Mt 1:18-25
3. Seed of Abraham Gen 22:18 /Mt 1:1
4. Seed of Isaac Gen 21:12 /Lk 3:23+34
5. Seed of Jacob Num 24:17 /Lk 3:34
6. Seed of David Jer 23:5 /Lk 3:31
7. Tribe of Judah Gen 49:10 /Rev 5:5
8. Family line of Jesse Isa 11:1 /Lk 3:32
9. Born in Bethlehem Mic 5:2 /Mt 2:1-6
10. Herod kills the children Jer 31:15 /Mt 2:16-18
Concerning his nature Prophesied /Fulfilled
11. He pre-existed creation Mic 5:2 1 /Pet 1:20
12. He shall be called Lord Ps 110:1 /Acts 2:36
13. Called Immanuel (God with us) Isa 7:14 /Mt 1:22-23
14. Prophet Deut 18:18-19 /Acts 3:18-25
15. Priest Ps 110:4 /Heb 5:5-6
16. Judge Isa 33:22 /Jn 5:22-23
17. King Ps 2:6 /Jn 18:33-37
18. Anointed by the Spirit Isa 11:2 /Mt 3:16-17
19. His zeal for God Ps 69:9 /Jn 2:15-17
Concerning his ministry Prophesied /Fulfilled
20. Preceded by a messenger Isa 40:3 /Mt 3:1-3
21. To begin in Galilee Isa 9:1-2 /Mt 4:12-17
22. Ministry of Miracles Isa 35:5-6 /Mt 9:35;11:4
23. Teacher of parables Ps 78:1-4 /Mt 13:34-35
24. He was to enter the temple Mal 3:1 /Mt 21:10-12
25. Enter Jerusalem on donkey Zech 9:9 /Mt 21:1-7
26. Stone of stumbling to Jews Isa 28:16; Ps 118:22 /1 Pet 2:6-8
27. Light to Gentiles Isa 49:6 /Acts 13:46-48
The day Jesus was crucified Prophesied /Fulfilled
28. Betrayed by a friend Ps 41:9 /Jn 13:18-27
29. Sold for 30 pieces of silver Zech 11:12 /Mt 26:14-15
30. 30 pieces thrown in Temple Zech 11:13 /Mt 27:3-5
31. 30 pieces buys potters field Zech 11:13 /Mt 27:6-10
32. Forsaken by His disciples Zech 13:7 /Mk 14:27+50
33. Accused by false witnesses Ps 35:11+20-21 /Mt 26:59-61
34. Silent before accusers Isa 53:7 /Mt 27:12-14
35. Wounded and bruised Isa 53:4-6 1 /Pet 2:21-25
36. Beaten and spit upon Isa 50:6 /Mt 26:67-68
37. Mocked Ps 22:6-8 /Mt 27:27-31
38. Fell under the cross Ps 109:24-25 /Jn 19:17; Lk23:26
39. Hands and feet pierced Ps 22:16 /Jn 20:24-28
40. Crucified with thieves Isa 53:12 /Mt 27:38
41. Prayed for enemies Isa 53:12 /Lk 23:34
42. Rejected by His own people Isa 53:3 /Jn 19:14-15
43. Hated without cause Ps 69:4 /Jn 15:25
44. Friends stood aloof Ps 38:11 /Lk22:54;23:49
45. People wag their heads Ps 22:7;109:25 /Mt 27:39
46. People stared at Him Ps 22:17 /Lk 23:35
47. Cloths divided and gambled for Ps 22:18 /Jn 19:23-24
48. Became very thirsty Ps 22:15 /Jn 19:28
49. Gall and vinegar offered Him Ps 69:21 /Mt 27:34
50. His forsaken cry Ps 22:1 /Mt 27:46
51. Committed Himself to God Ps 31:5 /Lk 23:46
52. Bones not broken Ps 34:20 /Jn 19:32-36
53. Heart broken Ps 69:20;22:14 /Jn 19:34
54. His side pierced Zech 12:10 /Jn 19:34+37
55. Darkness over the land Amos 8:9 /Lk 23:44-45
56. Buried in rich man's tomb Isa 53:9 /Mt 27:57-60
His Resurrection & Ascension Prophesied /Fulfilled
57. Raised from the dead Ps 16:8-11 /Acts 2:24-31
58. Begotten as Son of God Ps 2:7 /Acts 13:32-35
59. Ascended to God Ps 68:18 /Eph 2:8-10
60. Seated beside God Ps 110:1 /Heb 1:3+13


Today, the only way Bible scoffers can explain away this astronomical probability is to discredit the prophecies in one way or another.
http://www.bible.ca/b-prophecy-60.htm

If what's written above isn't enough, consider the prophetic writings in the Books of Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation. The bible predicted there will be a one world government in place, billions of people will die, and there will be an economic system in place so no man can buy or sell without a "mark" This mark of the beast prophesy standing on it's own is enough to blow Zeitgeist's claims out of the water. Do you have any idea of the technical sophistication it will take to setup a system where no man can buy or sell without this specific mark? Computers were'nt even a dream when the bible was written. There was no possible way for such a system to operate at the time the bible was written. Do you have any idea statistically how improbable it was to even guess there would be computers back around the time the bible was written? You can start your research on this prophesy being fulfilled here: http://www.verichipcorp.com/

Problem 7
Zeitgeist claims that since secular historians did'nt write about Jesus, he did'nt exist. First, why would Jesus leave any traces on the pages of secular history? He was virtually unknown – a traveling teacher who enjoyed limited popularity within a small community in a remote province on the eastern edge of the Roman empire. In the words of John P. Meier, professor of New Testament at the Catholic University of America in Washington D.C.: "Jesus was a marginal Jew leading a marginal movement in a marginal province of a vast Roman empire. The wonder is that any learned Jew or pagan would have known or referred to him at all in the first or second centuries" (A Marginal Jew, p. 56).

Second, does the fact that our evidence for Jesus comes from Christian sources mean that the evidence is too biased to be trusted? New Testament scholar Dr. R.T. France, former principal of Wycliffe Hall, Oxford University, gives us an excellent answer:

The Gospel writers tell us about Jesus because they think he is worth telling about, and they want others to follow him as well. But what worthwhile history or biography has ever been written by people who have no personal interest in what they write? Why should a 'bias' in favor of the subject render the history unreliable? Surely those who had been captivated by Jesus might be expected to take pains to pass on truth about him (Jesus 2000, p. 15).
http://www.wcg.org/lit/bible/gospels/howknow.htm

Problem 8

We're talking about an all knowing, all powerful God here. What would such a God be capable of? ANYTHING, right? He promises us that deception would be the hallmark of the days we are living in. Not only that, He specifically promises us:
<<>>
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Zeitgeist is a clever deception. The most dangerous lies are ones that contain some element of truth. It is true that there is a paganized form of christianity in the world. It is false that all forms of christianity are paganized. The problem with Zeitgeist is, they use trickery (straw man) and deception instead of truth to prove their point.

Conclusion

In a world full of lies, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. Finding the truth in Zeitgeist is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. True Christianity is creator centered not creation centered. That fact alone drives a flaming spear through the arguments presented in Zeitgeist.
See the follow on post for more on Zeitgeist.

Taking Heaven By Force?

Matthew 11:12 (NIV)
From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it.

Forceful people lay hold of it.....

Matthew 11:12(KJV)
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

The Greek transliteration of "and the violent take it by force" is below:

kai biastes harpazo autos harpazo

the violent-biastes, strongs says biastes means 1) strong, forceful 2) using force, violent

by force-harpazo according to strong's 1) to seize, carry off by force

2) to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly

3) to snatch out or away

So looking at the Greek for ourselves we can readily come up with "and the strong/forceful take it by seizing on it, or claiming it for one's self eagerly"

Interesting words....

What's another way of saying this? You have to REALLY want this to get it. You have to REALLY want the truth, you have to REALLY repent and want to turn away from sin to get this. You have to dwell on it, you have to treat your relationship with the Creator like it's something important. People often think about the things that are important to them, if the kingdom of heaven and God's Word is something that you don't think on often, what does that say about how important you think it is? This does'nt mean you are perfect, it means you want what Jesus is offering and you are willing to turn your back on this world to embrace the kingdom of heaven. Too often that price is to high and men embrace the world instead. Search your heart and mind to know what is within you. You can lie to men all die, please don't lie to yourself. Grace and Peace~D

Another Excellent Pre-Trib Article

Looking towards Heaven - Revelation Chapters 1-6

Jamma Mokhriby



There are a great number of studies on the Book of Revelation and we encourage prophecy students to search these rich resources for greater understanding of this glorious revelation from Jesus Christ.
If God allows, we will attempt to share in the coming weeks a succinct chapter by chapter overview of the Book of Revelation.
We pray that the information we share might aid and spur both believers and non believers to search ever deeper into the blessed words shared about mankind's future by the Risen Savior Jesus.

In Matthew 16:28 Jesus told His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom."
We are made aware of one disciple in particular by the Scriptures that lived to see the reality of that which Jesus has prophesied. The disciple was John and the record of his experience is recorded for us in the Bible Book of Revelation.
Although books upon books could be and have been written on the amazing information given to us in the twenty-two chapters of Revelation, we will attempt in this series of messages to give a brief overview for a general understanding for those with inquiring minds.
Chapter 1:1 tells us the Book is "the Revelation of Jesus Christ" of "things which must shortly take place."
Looking at the thousand year to a day pattern given in the Scripture in conjunction with the seven day sabbatical cycles of God, we find that the first four days of God's allotted time for man had passed by the time of Christ's first coming. The final two days which initiated the reference to the shortness of time which was left are almost at an end and we are convinced that the hour of God's Sabbath rest is just on the horizon.
Revelation 1:3 again emphasizes that "the time is near" and promises a special blessing for those who read or hear the words of this book and keeps those things which are written in it. Glancing over and disregarding the revelation of this prophecy will not bring forth the promised blessing.
In verses 4-6 John addresses the epistle to the seven churches which were in Asia from the seven Spirits who are before God's throne from Jesus Christ (Isa. 11:2). The word "church" means an assembly of called out ones.
Verses 7 & 8 verify that the same Jesus Christ who is returning to the earth at the close of the final 7 year Tribulation Period is none other than God Almighty.
Verses 9-16 has John describing the awesome appearance he beheld of Jesus Christ his beloved teacher on whose chest he once rested his head upon (Jn. 13:25).
What a hope to desire for oneself in the spiritual sense, to hear the heartbeat of the Son of God and bring to our recollection that our Lord Jesus Christ is only a heartbeat away. Our hearts leap for joy when we consider the love of our precious Lord, Savior and friend, Jesus.
Apparently of all the disciples only John experienced this extraordinary intimacy with his Creator because of his unreserved love for his Savior (Jn. 1:3).
Verses 17 & 18 shows Jesus once again comforting this disciple which he loves (Jn. 13:23) and reassures him that He has conquered Hades and death.
It had been over a half century since John had seen his Lord ascend into heaven and the appearance of Jesus in glory caused John to collapse (Acts 1:9).
Verse 19 is the major key to understanding the divisions God has placed in the Book of Revelation. John was to "write the things which you have seen" (the appearance of Jesus Christ to him on the island of Patmos where he had been exiled), "and the things which are" (the seven churches), "and the things which will take place after this" (that is after the time of the churches).
Verse 20 then directs us to Jesus' exhortations and rebukes for His churches.
Chapters 2 & 3 of the Book of Revelation contain information to the seven churches that were existing at the time John was on Patmos. These churches are then representative of the dominant church characteristic that existed sequentially throughout the Church Age. These characteristics continue to exist to some extent in individual churches until the Rapture takes place before the Tribulation Period begins. At that time Jesus Christ will gather all believers to meet Him in the air on their way to His Father's house in heaven (I Thess. 4:15-18 & Jn. 14:1-3).
First there are the Ephesians who have a strong orthodox church, but are unproductive in their love for Christ. Next is Smyrna which is persecuted and greatly favored by Christ. Then there is Pergamos which is idolatrous and worldly. Fourth we have Thyatira which tolerates immorality within its ranks. Fifth is Sardis which is the dying church.
The final two are revealed in dramatic contrast to each other when considering the Rapture.
The Philadelphians are faithful and Rev. 3:10 prophesies that Christ will "keep them from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world." The inference pertains to deliverance from the Tribulation Period.
Then lastly we have the Laodiceans which is the congregation of the wealthy, indifferent ones. These wishy washy believers are so abhorrent to Christ that in the Greek found in Rev. 3:16 the word for "spew" (emeo) means literally Jesus will "vomit" or "spit" them out of His mouth. This assembly is warned to repent or else have the shame of their nakedness revealed.
It is very likely that the Laodicean Church will have the great dishonor to have been joined before the Rapture to the harlot religion of Revelation 17. The false believers she will produce will carry her church's name on into the tribulation.
Chapter 3 closes with the call of the spirit for the churches to heed the words of admonition and warning which have been given.
From Chapter 1 through Chapter 3 the Church has been mentioned a total of nineteen times. After Chapter 3 the presence of the Church on earth is no longer found throughout the remainder of the Book of Revelation until after she returns with Jesus Christ at the close of the Great Tribulation.
Chapter 4 begins with John seeing an open door in heaven and a voice like a trumpet telling him, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."
These things spoken of are to take place after what had just been addressed, that is the Church Age. The scene is now significantly taking place in heaven.
In verses 2 & 3 John, a representation of the Church, views God sitting on His throne. His appearance was like jasper and sardius stone, that is like fire and ruby and around the throne there was a rainbow that appeared like an emerald.
Verse 4 then reveals twenty-four elders in heaven wearing crowns of gold. Crowns are rewards to believers and are not given until after the Rapture at the Judgement Seat of Christ (I Cor. 9:25, II Tim. 4:8, I Pet. 5:4, I Thess. 4:15-18 & II Cor. 5:10). By this fact it is made known that we are seeing 24 Raptured believers residing in heaven.
Verses 5-9 of Rev. Ch. 4 then describes more of the incredible sights John witnessed in heaven and concludes in verses 10 & 11 with the glorified elders casting their crowns before God's throne and giving Him glory and honor.
Chapter 5 continues this scene in heaven, but now instead of an atmosphere of celebration a more somber tone is found. A scroll in the hand of God is offered for someone to open and at first no one is found worthy. John weeps in Verse 4 at this news.
Many Bible scholars point out an association between this scroll sealed with seven seals and the ancient Hebrew right of a kinsman to redeem the property of a family member. It is by the comparison a deed to the earth. Man's authority, or deed was lost to Satan in the garden of Eden and has given him a legitimate claim over the earth. Jesus recognized Satan's rulership upon the earth when He called him "the prince of this world" in John 14:30.
The Hebrew focus continues in Verse 5 when Jesus is addressed in His role as Redeemer as "the Lion of the tribe of Judah" and "the Root of David."
In verse 6 the price Jesus paid for the deed is contrasted to His title of a lion when He is seen as the Sacrificial Lamb which paid for the sins of the world (I Cor. 6:20).
In Verse 7 Jesus takes the purchased scroll from God His Father.
Verses 8, 9 & 10 verify beyond question that the Church will have been Raptured and will be in heaven before the first seal of the scroll which begins the Tribulation Period is broken.
In verse 9 we are shown that those redeemed from "out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation" by the blood of Jesus Christ are in heaven praising their Savior. These people can be nobody other than the glorified saints of the Church. The rejoicing continues to escalate on through the end of the chapter.
Verse 13 is another fascinating Scripture which strengthens the fact that the glorification of the Church has taken place by this time. The Scriptures tell us that all of creation is longing for the day Christ redeems the earth. At this point of Revelation we find the creation joyously joining in the moment of praise.
We quote, "And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!" Turning to Romans 8:16-23 we find that the day creation is earnestly waiting for as the sign its deliverance is near is directly related to the time when the Church is glorified.
Romans 8:19 & 21 reads, "For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God...because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
The "glorious liberty of the children of God" being spoken of is intertwined with "the redemption of our body" and our being "glorified together" according to Rom. 8:17-23.
The glorious sign of the "revealing of the sons of God," which the creation is eagerly waiting for to signal its own deliverance from bondage and corruption is none other than the Rapture of the Church. With the Church glorified in heaven it is appropriate and understandable why every creature in creation sings praises at that blessed moment. It is because Jesus Christ is about to cleanse the earth of evil. The day of His vengeful wrath has come when all things which are written of restoration and renewal will be fulfilled (Lk. 21:22).
Chapter 6:1 & 2 reveal to us that the Tribulation Period begins when Jesus Christ (the Lamb which had been slain) opens the first seal of the scroll and unleashes a conqueror upon the world.
This conqueror has a crown like a king, but in the Greek we find that his crown is not a "diadema," which is the crown of a true imperial dignity, but instead he wears the crown called "stephanos," which is a symbol of triumph in a contest or a token of public honor, such as for military prowess.
He carries a bow, but no arrows and rides upon a white horse. These symbolize his initial ability to subdue his adversaries and have victory over them without having to rely on weaponry. He is accepted by much of the world as not only a king, but as a savior.
This man is the one known as the Anti-Christ and is described as the one who "shall destroy many in their prosperity" in Daniel 8:23-25.
In perfect harmony with what is revealed in II Thessalonians Chapter 2, the Church will have been Raptured to heaven before this man of sin takes his place on the world scene at the start of the Tribulation Period. It will be at this time when he will strengthen the covenant of Daniel 9:27 with Israel for 7 years. Please see our Rapture Watch Message, "II Thess. Ch. 2 - The Hope of God's Sequencing."

http://rapturewatch.cephasministry.com/343%20%20Looking%20towards%20Heaven%20-%20Revelation%20Chapters%201-6.html

More Validation of a Pre-Trib Rapture

When the Restraint is Removed

Jamma Mokhriby


Part IV




In our opinion, one of the most controversial passages in the New Testament debated by adherents of the Post, Mid and Pre-Trib Rapture teachings would have to be II Thessalonians 2:1-8.

The questions and opinions held to by the diverse points of view comes down basically to 3 subjects: the timing and the meaning of the events recorded by the Apostle Paul in verses 1-3 and who is the "Restrainer" of the man of sin in verses 6-7.

Quoting verses 1-2 we read, "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come."

It is generally agreed upon that in verse 2 Paul was assuring the Thessalonians that they were not entering into the day of the Lord's judgment. Fraudulent messages and distressing circumstances surrounding them made them fearful that they were experiencing the time of God's judgment.

It is also largely agreed that Paul is speaking of the time of the Rapture in verse 1 as is described in John 14:1-3 and I Thess. 4:15-18.

Verse 2 begins the debate. Pre-Trib supporters say that while verse 1 unquestionably speaks of the Rapture (which they believe transpires before the Tribulation Period), verse 2 refers to the day of Christ's judgement which begins at the start of the Tribulation when the Lord Jesus opens the first seal of judgment in Revelation 6:1.

It is important to understand that refuters of this interpretation maintain Paul is still speaking about the Rapture in both verse 1 and verse 2.

The pivotal question put forth by the Pre-Trib position concerns the clear reference to the Rapture in verse 1. It is rightly asked, "Why did Paul reassure the Thessalonians in his letter that they had not missed the Rapture?"

The point veiled behind this question is commanding and demands a reflective answer. If Paul had taught the Thessalonians a Mid or Post-Trib Rapture then they would not have had any reason to be confused about having entered the Tribulation. It is logical to deduce by Paul's assurance to them concerning the Rapture that the Thessalonians had been taught a Pre-Trib Rapture.

The Apostle Paul had been their teacher according to verse 5. If Paul wanted to remedy an incorrect Pre-Trib Rapture outlook then verses 1 & 2 would have been transposed in his letter to them. He would have encouraged them to prepare for the judgment day of Christ first and then the gathering together at the Rapture instead of vice-versa.

If the Rapture was something which they did not believe they may have missed, why then we must ask, was it addressed as their primary concern in verse 1? If verse 2 is still speaking of the Rapture as Pre-Trib opponents contend, then we must accept that the Apostle Paul had no intention of relieving their distress, but instead for some unfathomable reason intended to add even more. Paul would have in essence replaced their hope of deliverance by the Rapture with the terror of someday facing the Great Tribulation.

In contrast, Pre-Trib adherents accept that the obvious purpose of these words penned by Paul is to relieve the anxiety of the Thessalonians by assuring them they had not entered into the Tribulation Period of verse 2 and therefore had not missed the Rapture spoken of in verse 1.

Continuing on to verse 3 in our study of Ch. 2 of II Thessalonians, we must point out that the words, "that day will not come" are not in the original Greek, but are added in by translators to help understand the passage connection to the previous subject.

Quoting verse 3 we read, "Let no one deceive you by any means, for [that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition." The focus is on the day of Christ's judgement.

While studying verse 3 it is helpful to keep the different view points in mind.

The various views of Mid-Tribulationists teach that the Rapture could happen at any time between the start and the conclusion of the 7 year Tribulation Period. Generally we can say that the dominant Mid-Trib position holds that verse 3 is speaking of both the Rapture of verse 1 and the day of Christ in verse 2, and that they are occurring in close proximity at selected points during the Tribulation Period.

Post-Tribulationists who believe that the Rapture takes place during Armageddon are compelled to teach that verse 3 is referring to verse 1 & 2 combined together. They maintain the Rapture will happen at the close of the Tribulation Period as Christ returns.

Returning to verse 3 we find that the Greek word for "falling away" is a matter of considerable debate. Some say this "falling away" is a departure of the Church from the sound doctrines of the Christian faith. Others have said that it must be Israel that is being spoken of. And then there are those who maintain that those being spoken of are neither the Church nor Israel, but false professors of Christianity. Apostates who are exposed after the true Church is removed at the Rapture.

The Greek word for "falling away" is the Greek word "apostasia" where we get our word apostasy from. It is derived from the verb "aphistemi" which means "to do away, depart or remove." Some believe this is a reference to the Rapture.

In verses 18 & 19 in Ch. 2 of II John, the Apostle vividly speaks of the departure of false believers in these last days and gives solid scriptural direction for understanding the "falling away" in our opinion. Verse 3 then reveals to us that the Day of the Lord cannot come until the man of sin (that is the Anti-Christ) is revealed.

Momentarily skipping ahead to verses 6 & 7 it is necessary to point out that these verses speak of a "Restrainer" which must be taken out of the way first before the Anti-Christ can be revealed.

Pre-Trib adherents believe for good reasons that this Restrainer can only be the Church. They also justifiably believe that the Anti-Christ will be revealed at the very start of the Tribulation Period when Christ opens the first seal of the last day's judgments as is prophesied in Revelation 6:1-2. Therefore they come to the sequential conclusion that the Church must be removed before the start of the 7 year Tribulation Period.

Once again the Pre-Trib Rapture supporters main point of argument must be emphasized when realizing that Paul has just informed the Thessalonians in verse 3 that the appointed Restrainer of the most evil ruler of all of history will be removed by the start of the Tribulation Period.

Chapter 1:4-6 of II Thessalonians makes it abundantly clear that the Thessalonians were suffering terrible persecutions and tribulations already and Paul now tells them that evil will soon be unrestrained.

The question must be asked as to exactly what kind of consolation was Paul supposedly giving to the Church in this passage of II Thessalonians?

According to Post and Mid-Trib interpretations, Paul was telling the troubled Thessalonians they should give up their hope of the Lord's appearing for deliverance and that the terrible suffering they were enduring was nothing compared to that which lie in store for when the horrible son of perdition would be revealed.

This is an unacceptable conclusion to Pre-Tribulationists since in verse 2 Paul stressed his desire to offer the Thessalonians the greatest of comfort and deliverance from any doubts.

We now come to verses 6-8 of Ch. 2 of II Thess. Verse 6 is a fascinating, albeit cryptic message. The Thessalonians understood "what" and "who" Paul was speaking of as the 'Restrainer" of the Anti-Christ in verse 7, but we are left to the Lord's leading. Paul writes, "And you know "what" is restraining, that he (the Anti-Christ) may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only "He" who now restrains will do so until "He" is taken out of the way."

Theories as to the identity of this "what" and "who" include, world government, the Archangel Michael, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Church.

Pre-Tribulationists are persuaded that the identity of this mysterious entity described both in neutered impersonal and also personal terms could be none other than the Church or the Holy Spirit.

It is soundly argued that only the Church and the Holy Spirit can fulfill the Restrainer's role of being both a neutered impersonal entity and also a singular male individual at the same time.

This matches perfectly the scriptural portrayal of the Spirit-filled Church as it melds into the Body of Christ. All other choices fail to meet the scripturally required personal/impersonal qualifications of the Restrainer. Thus Pre-Tribulationists conclude that the restraining role of the Church must be removed before the Anti-Christ can make his appearance at the start of the Tribulation Period as is revealed in Rev. 6:1-2 & Dan. 9:27.

The suggestion that the Restrainer is solely the Holy Spirit apart from the Church is refuted by the scriptural necessity for Him to remain on the earth throughout the Tribulation Period because it is only through His ministry that people can be led to salvation in Christ (See I Cor. 12:3).

Pre-Trib Rapture believers point out to those who insist otherwise that Ephesians 1:13-14 establishes that even if the Holy Spirit's presence could ever be removed from the earth, the Church would have to go also since the Holy Spirit indwells the Church as a down payment of their inheritance according to the Word of God.

Pre-Tribulationists therefore conclude that Paul was faithful and consistent in his intention to alleviate what was troubling the Church when he wrote to them in Ch. 2 of II Thess. and in his offer of hope to future generations. He first assured them in verses 1 & 2 that they had not misunderstood his original teaching of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture and therefore had not entered into the Tribulation Period as many had come to believe.

In verse 3 he reassures them that the Tribulation Period can not take place until after the falling away and the revealing of the Anti-Christ.

In verses 6-8 Paul concludes his unwavering words of assurance by reemphasizing that an entity is holding back the Anti-Christ from making his appearance (an entity which they will recognize has been removed) and that that entity must be taken out of the way first before the day of the Lord will start. That entity can only be the blood-washed Church of Jesus Christ.

Our purpose in this message is to present the solid ground which supporters of the Pre-Trib Rapture stand upon in their blessed hope. We do not agree with Pre-Tribulationists who take Matthew 24:48-49 out of its context and apply it to Mid and Post Tribulationists.

The evil servant spoken of in this passage of Scripture was not involved in the study of the timing of the Rapture, but was fostering an attitude of complacency in order to cast off restraint. The evil servant's desire was to indulge in his sin unencumbered.

Also we are in disagreement with Post and Mid-Tribulationists who say Pre-Tribulationists are going to cause believers to cast off their faith if they should enter the Tribulation. This accusation goes directly against the Word of God found in I John 2:18-19.

There we are told that deserters from the faith are apostates who are manifested for what they always had been - non-believers. True believers, whether they be Pre, Mid or Post-Tribulationists are abiding in these evil days together no matter what position one holds to on the timing of the Rapture. What happens to one will happen to all.

We are convinced that we are at the threshold of the start of the Tribulation Period and that an exercise in love between the divergent groups at this point would demonstrate a sober wisdom in the Lord.

We believe without a shadow of a doubt that the Pre-Trib Rapture teaching will be proven correct in the very near future.

Are you ready to meet the Lord through Rapture or death? Believe on the Living Lord Jesus Christ this moment for the forgiveness of your sins through His shed blood and this very moment you will receive eternal life.

Soon the trumpet will sound and the dead and living in Christ will shed their fallen natures like polluted garments, never to be put on again. We pray that you all will be ready.

http://rapturewatch.cephasministry.com/327%20When%20the%20Restraint%27s%20Removed%20-%20Part%20IV.html

Pre-Trib Thoughts

<< 1 Thessalonians 4 >>
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

<< Revelation 4 >>
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

A door open in heaven? Hmm, what a coincidence....or not...

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

1 Thessalonians 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Here's what I want to focus on out of this passage:

that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

we which are alive and remain.......what do we know about the timing

2 Thes 2
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

We know it will be a time of DECEPTION and APOSTACY, so what does this have to do with "we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord?"

Some suggest that the words "alive and remain" have something to do with christians being killed in the tribulation, I counter that with the word of God which says at the time of the anti-christ being revealed, there will be few true believers left due to deception and apostacy. The REMAINING FEW (Matt7:14), who are still true to the Lord and His Word will be raptured in order to ESCAPE ALL (Luke 21:36) that's about to happen.

More Pre-Trib Thoughts

I guess watching at EVERY season, means watching today...and tomorrow, and the next day...for what? For the great ESCAPE.

Luke 21:36
But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

More Pre-Tribulation escape thoughts...

1 Th 4:16-17

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.(KJV)

Rev 3

8 I know thy works (behold, I have set before thee a door opened, which none can shut),
10 Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Rev 4

1 After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, a voice as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter.

And round about the throne were four and twenty thrones: and upon the thrones I saw four and twenty elders sitting, arrayed in white garments; and on their heads crowns of gold.

white garments? crowns?

Only men wear crowns

Only men wear white garments

Only men sit on thrones (except God and Satan)

Only men are elders

Revelation 3:21 says, "He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."

Revelation 3:5 says, "He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

Revelation 2:10 says, "Do no fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Revelation 3:11 says, "I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown."

Rev 5
Redeemed men in heaven, it's crystal clear:

for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Hmmmm, let's see....REDEEMED MEN out of EVERY KINDRED, TONGUE, PEOPLE AND NATION....

Gosh, how did redeemed/rewarded men show up in heaven in Rev 5? Only one way..A PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE....

Pre-Wrath Believers and The Unforgivable Sin

Rev 6
The wrath of God (not satan)

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Pre-wrath apostacy knows no end...consider the dangerous ground they tread...what is the only sin that unforgivable?

Mark 3:22-30 states,

"And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He has Beelzebub,' and, 'By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.' …'Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;' because they said, 'He has an unclean spirit'" (NKJV, emphasis added / Note: The Pharisees made the same charge in Mat 9:34.).

In Matthew 12:31-32, Jesus says to the Pharisees,

"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come" (NKJV, emphasis added).

What is the context of these statements, and what is the exact sin described?

The Pharisees had long observed the sinless Jesus Christ. They observed him doing undeniable and powerful miracles that were, at the very least, clear evidence of power supplied by God. These impressive miracles were freely given in pure kindness and love to release people from obvious suffering and the oppression of horrible evil.

However, the Pharisees had so firmly set their hearts against accepting Jesus as the Messiah that they rejected the obvious truth before them and perversely twisted it to influence the crowds. They publicly credited the most ultimately evil being in the universe with these precious, godly miracles. In other words, they called the precious and holy Spirit of God, the unclean spirit of Satan. In effect, they charged Jesus Christ with sorcery; one who is in league with Satan. These charges are not only appalling and extremely serious, but clearly absurd. As Jesus immediately responded,

"How can Satan cast out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. No one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house" (Mark 3:23-27; also see Luke 11:14-23).

When pre-wrath advocates tell us that the seal judgements are the "wrath of satan" are they not accusing Jesus of sorcery; or one who is in league with satan? Is this not exactly the same sin committed when in Mark 3:22-30 the scribes accused Jesus of casting out demons using satanic power?

They tread some very VERY dangerous ground....

So Called Christians

Time grows very short for this world. I'd like to address so called christianity today. When someone calls themself a "christian" what does that really mean? A "christian" we are told is someone who follows christ, thus a christ-ian. Here's the million dollar question though.....WHICH CHRIST? Matt 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. When the anti-christ shows up, guess what his followers will be? Christ-ians, the anti-christ is still a christ is he not? Especially today there are many different "christs" in the world. There's the warrior christ many follow today. These so called christians cannot spill blood fast enough in the middle east. There's the get rich christ. Followers of this christ believe that worldly wealth is the path to heaven. There's the social/religious christ. Followers of this christ believe it's enough to be a good person, to be "serviced" like my car at a jiffy lube on wednesday and sundays and trust their "pastor"/hired hand to lead them into the promised land. There's the nicolaitan christ, this one seems to be most popular today. The nicolaitan christ fits in perfectly with this world. The nicolaitan christ is kind of hard to figure out for most peons in the nicolaitan system, which is why they need "pastors" and "christian scholars" to figure things out for them. Once the "christian scholars" figure something out, they write it down somewhere for the various hired hand pastors so they can explain things to the unwashed masses. How is the Word of God revealed to man, through "christian scholars" or by the Holy Spirit? Never mind the fact that the real Son of God says He HATES the deeds and practices of the nicolaitans...The nicolaitan christ works really well for pretty much 99% of apostianity today! There are other so called christs who produce so called christians in the world. Around 85% of people in the US call themselves "christians," that means about 8 out of 10 people, yet wickedness walks more freely among us than it EVER has, how does that jive? The false pastors and today's false christians are bathed in gold and blood. They look like the world, they speak from the viewpoint of the world, they live like the world (minus the christian jargon they throw around and the social club meetings they attend on sunday and wednesday. This is a condemnation of 99% of what calls itself christianity today. Matt 7:14 clearly tells us that only a few will be saved, why don't today's pastor's preach on that? Too negative...sorry, bad for church growth. The bible advocates a plurality of elders overseeing (not ruling) the church. Today's apostianity wants none of it, they want STAR POWER!! They want rock star GURUS, they want men who can ENTERTAIN, they want what's in the kings palace, not the stable, not the manger. Today's apostianity looks for their christ in buildings that BLING, the Jesus Christ I know was born in a humble, no name stable, no bling, no glitz, no glamour.

Isaiah 53:2
He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

^^^^sounds to me like the real Jesus would'nt even make the C-list in today's apostianity...

This world has no place for the true Son of God. WAKE UP AND REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Moving

My family is in the process of moving across the country, starting today I won't be able to respond to comments until all the dust settles, my posts will continue as inspiration strikes. Grace and Peace

More Pre-Wrath Disobedience

There are many ways the the pre-wrath (PW) position falls apart, but since almost all of the pre-wrath advocates I've had the pleasure of debating like to evade I have found it most beneficial to pin them down in one place and squeeze the life out of their arguments there. Luke 21:36 is the weapon of choice, the sword of the Spirit that demolishes the PW position in one stab. There are two points of willfull disobedience exposed by this one passage of scripture, both are equally damning to the PW position. First, let's look at this weapon:

Luke 21:36 But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may be counted worthy/prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Now, the first place PW advocates disobey: "But watch ye at every season"
watch at EVERY SEASON......for what? For the escape, it follows within the SAME SENTENCE. Why would pre-wrathers be watching at EVERY SEASON when they seem to think that "the escape" does'nt come until mid-tribulation? If they say they are watching for the escape at every season they sink their own PW ship, if they are not "watching at every season" they are willfully disobedient.

The second place they disobey: making supplication, that ye may be counted worthy/prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass. A pre-wrath advocate cannot both pray to "escape all" and believe in a "pre-wrath" rapture, since they directly conflict. Either the Holy Spirit is insane, or the pre-wrath doctrine is false.

So, pre-wrathers neither "watch at every season" (for the escape) nor do they pray to "escape all." That's two points of disobedience in one verse of scripture. Why do I need to employ any other weapons to sink their ship? Luke 21:36 is a nuclear tipped torpedo for the PW position. To date, not one, ZERO pre-wrath advocates have been able to circumevent the devastation this one scripture does to their position. Since they have no answer to this glaring problem, instead, they evade, ask counter questions relating to everything BUT why they fail to obey, they quote their hero(Dave Mcpherson). Once they get tired of failing to answer why they disobey the commands in Luke 21:36, they then claim victory and walk away. They accuse me of evading them, when they never answer my question: Why do you fail to obey the commands (2 of them) in Luke 21:36? They have no answer.

How can I judge people I've never met? By definition, the PW position is incompatible with the commands of Luke 21:36. If you adhere to one, you must dismiss the other. It's just that simple. There is so much more that supports the pre-trib position, but why expand the argument when I can check and mate them with one verse?

The Pre-wrath argument structure

1. Most importantly-DO NOT ANSWER why they refuse to pray for the escape in Luke 21:36

2. Hem, haw, ask counter questions, in general lay out why they believe the rapture will be mid-trib WITHOUT ANSWERING question number 1-why they refuse to obey the command in Luke 21:36

3. Accuse the pre-trib believer for not aswering their questions, and claim victory when they NEVER BOTHER to answer why they disobey the Lord's command in Luke 21:36, PRAY TO BE COUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE.

In conclusion, they have no answer, if they do obey the command in Luke 21:36 they admit that there is an escape possible before the wrath of God falls in Rev 6, if they dance around it, they admit they have no answer for it and they are in willful disobedience. PROVE ME WRONG, you can't.....

Pre-wrathers, why do you disobey?

Luke 21:36 commands you to pray for escape from ALL that's about to happen, why do you refuse to obey this command? To this day NOT ONE, pre-wrath believer has answered, not one, they dance, they hem, they haw, they ask me counter questions, but they WILL NOT ANSWER because they cannot, their position is fatally flawed. They disobey because their opinion rates higher than the command of God. I challenge any prewrather out there to answer DIRECTLY this question, you can't...you are exposed, please prove me wrong without evading, answer the question or don't post at all.

More Fatal Flaws in the "prewrath" tribulation view

I find it amusing that "prewrath" believers often accuse the pretib position as being one that is new. Uh, perhaps they should look in the mirror for a second (or years)? how old is the "prewrath" belief? Dave Mcp and his followers DONT want to talk about that do they?

Introduction: Within the last few years a new view of the timing of the Rapture has become popular. This modern view, called the Pre-Wrath View, has been taught by Robert Van Kampen in the 1970's and by Marvin Rosenthal in the early 1990s. This view correctly states that the Rapture of believers, of this present Church Age, will occur before God pours His wrath upon the earth in the Tribulation.
Interestingly, all the views of the timing of the Rapture teach the same biblical truth. Each view accepts that Christians in this dispensation of the Church Age will not go through God's wrath which is poured out on the earth in the coming Tribulation. However, the Pre-Wrath view purports that God's wrath is only directed on earth during the last 3 2 years of the seven year Tribulation or 70th Week of Daniel. (Dan. 9:27) The exact timing of the Rapture varies among the Pre-Wrath advocates from the middle of the seven years to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.


The Seven Year Tribulation
Daniel's 70th Week

Rapture Second Coming
7 years
Begin 3 ½ years 3 ½ years End
|_____________________________________________________________|
Seals Trumpets Bowls
Rev. 6:17-8:60 Rev. 8:7-9:21 Rev. 16:1-21
Rev. 11:15-19

The biblical view of the Pre-Tribulationalists is that the whole of the seven years, called the Tribulation, Daniel's 70th Week, or the Time of Jacob's trouble, is a period of God pouring out His wrath. God will do this in a series of three judgments upon the earth. The Pre-Wrath view is based on the accretion that the Bible does not teach that the pouring out of God's wrath occurs during the whole seven years of the Tribulation. Their view is that the out pouring of God's wrath only occurs sometime after or toward the middle of the first three and a half years.

However, the Book of Revelation teaches the judgments or wrath of God on earth begin at the start of the seven years of Tribulation with the Seal Judgments (Rev. 6:17, 8:1-60) , followed by the Trumpets Judgments (Rev. 8:7-921, 11:15-19) and subsequent and final Bowl (Vial) Judgments (Rev. 16:1-21). As each judgment is released upon the earth they grow in intensity and increasing more devastating. The last 3 2 years of the seven years of the Tribulation will be the worse period and is referred to as the Great Tribulation (Matt. 24:21).


FLAWS IN THE PRE-WRATH RAPTURE VIEW

There are many flaws within the Pre-wrath view. One of its major flaws is that it teaches that the Seal Judgments are the wrath of Satan and the Antichrist, and not the judgment or wrath of God. It is their position that Matthew 24:22 is a reference to the "Church" being Raptured thus removing them from the earth and ending the persecution of the Antichrist and Satan.


"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." (Matthew 24:22)

The first problem with this view is the presumption that Matthew 24:22 is referring to Church Age saints. The Pre-Wrath position is that God will Rapture Church Age saints in the middle of the Tribulation before He begins to pour out His wrath on earth. This view ignores the fact that many people, Jews and Gentiles, will be saved on the earth during the seven year Tribulation. God's purpose in bringing the seven year Tribulation on earth is to fulfill His promises to Israel and purge the earth prior to His setting up the Millennial Kingdom. God will be once again working with the Jews and the Nation of Israel. Matthew 24:20 specifically states that those who are fleeing the persecution of the Antichrist should pray it will not be on the Sabbath.


"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day" (Matthew 24:20)
Christians do not worship on or keep the Sabbath. Exodus 31:17 states that the Sabbath was a special everlasting sign between God and Israel. Clearly, this passage is addressing the Jews who to this day continue to keep the Sabbath. The primary focus of events of the seven year Tribulation is directed towards Israel and the coming promised Kingdom of the Messiah Jesus Christ. Church Age saints are not in view here.

When Jesus began His ministry, the Gospels record that He presenting Himself to Israel as their Messiah, and that the promised kingdom was "at hand." (See Matt. 3:2, 4:17, 10:7; Mark 1:15, Luke 21:31). He was offering them the promised kingdom promised in the Old Testament. However, the Nation of Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah. In 70 AD God allowed Titus, the Roman general to destroy Jerusalem and the Temple. Biblical Judaism ceased to exist and the Jews were dispersed throughout the Roman Empire. God's offer of the promised Kingdom was thus postponed. This is a vital truth and must be understood in order to correctly understand what God's plan is for the Tribulation. Many Old Testament prophecies such as Ezekiel 36 predict Israel's regathering into the Promised Land.

Clear evidence that the the seven year Tribulation is God's plan to complete His promise to Israel is seen the prophecies of Daniel. Daniel prophesied that the Messiah would be cut off in the 483rd year (week), but that God's covenant with Israel would be confirmed in the seventh week. Jesus was "cut off" being crucified in the 483rd year as Daniel foretold which leaves seven years of his prophecy unfulfilled. The coming seven Tribulations, or Daniel's 70th Week is the period when God will once again offer the promised Kingdom to Israel again and many Jews will be saved. God will complete His plan; purge the earth and Israel of unbelievers which will usher in the thousand year reign of Christ on earth. Christ will be the King of the Jews and of the world and rule from Jerusalem. Christians saved since Pentecost until the Rapture are not in view in this final seven years of the Old Testament dispensation. The Church Age will end before the seven year Tribulation and the last seven years of the Old Testament period will begin until God has completed His purposes for the nation of Israel. The current dispensation of the Church Age will end with the Rapture of all believers, both dead and alive, before God begins to renew His covenant with Israel. There is nothing in Matthew 24 that refers to Church Age saints. Those saved in the Tribulation are a different group of believers.




THE FLAW OF PURPORTING THE FIRST PART
OF THE TRIBULATION IS NOT THE OUT POURING OF GOD'S WRATH.
The another mistake of the Pre-Wrath view is in purporting that the first part of the seven year Tribulation, the Seal Judgments, are not the wrath of God, but the wrath of Satan and the Antichrist. However, the Pre-Wrath view ignores a vital truth clearly stated in Revelation 5:12 and 6:1f. At the beginning of the seven year Tribulation, as Revelation 6:1 states, the wrath of God begins with the opening of the Seal Judgments by Jesus Christ (the Lamb of Rev. 5:12, 6:16).

Revelation 5:1-14 is the prelude to the Tribulation in which Jesus Christ is presented as the Lamb, who is the only worthy One, who has the authority and position to open the seven sealed book. The Pre-Wrath view says that the beginning of the Tribulation is the wrath of man, or of the Antichrist and Satan, and not of God. However, Revelation 5:3 states, "And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon." The book that no man could open is the seven sealed book of the wrath of God which He will unfold in the seven year Tribulation. The opening of the book begins the seven year Tribulation. What is about to unfold is plainly not the work of any man, but of the Messiah, the work of "the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David." This event is Almighty God fulfilling His plan for Israel and the world in this final stage before the Millennium.

It is the Lamb, Himself, who opens the first seal (Rev. 6:1) and thus initiates the beginning of the seven years of the Tribulation. Revelation 5:4 says that no man could open the book. Further, Revelation 6:3, states that "he" referring to the Lamb of verse 6:1, and verses 5, 7, 9, and 12, continues in opening each of the subsequent Seal Judgments. Clearly, these are not judgments initiated by man or Antichrist, but by the Worthy Lamb of Chapter 5. It is Jesus Christ who opens each of the seals in the first half of the Tribulation and brings God's wrath on the earth. Yes, it is the Antichrist who persecutes God's people and all peoples on earth, but he does so at the discretion of Jesus Christ. God will be using the Antichrist as the instrument of His wrath. Many times in biblical history God used the enemies of Israel to chasten and judge them. The Antichrist could do nothing unless he was allowed by God to do so. The Pre-Wrath view is fatally flawed in its assumption that it is not God who is pouring His wrath on the earth at the beginning of the Tribulation and though out the seven years and until the three sets of God's judgments are completed. It is Almighty God who is using the Seal Judgments begins His plan to purge the earth of sin. It should be recognized that if the Seal Judgments are the wrath of God, the Pre-Wrath position is refuted.

There can be no mistake the New Testament says in this dispensation of the Church Age, which began at Pentecost (Acts 2) and will continue until the Rapture, believers will not go through wrath of God. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 deals with instruction concerning the end times and verse 19, gives Christians the promise of God, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:9).



IT IS JESUS CHRIST, THE WORTHY LAMB WHO OPENS EACH OF THE SEAL JUDGMENTS
AND INITIATES THE BEGINING OF POURING OUT OF THE WRATH OF GOD.
As show above, it is Jesus Christ who begins the seven year Tribulation and the outpouring of God's wrath as Revelation 6 reveals. The beginning of God's wrath is in His allowing the Riders of the Four Horsemen to rain their various destructions on the earth. In the beginning it is the Lamb who opens the first seal and unleashes the Antichrist, the first horseman riding a white horse upon the earth. The first rider riding a white horse and wearing a crown is allowed to go forth to conquer the world. This is a picture of the Antichrist who will rise to power on earth as a great political leader and present himself as a savior to the world. He will represent himself as a man of peace in his deceptive strategy. Represented as a "little horn," the Antichrist comes with a crown on his head and as Daniel 7:8, 8:8-12 prophecies and takes control of the world's governments. He comes offering peace but by military and political might, and his actions will bring havoc and death on the earth. The Pre-Wrath advocates say this will be a time of peace on the earth. As Revelation 6:2 states, the Antichrist will be "going forth to conquer and conquering," and this is clearly not a picture of a period of peace. The timing of the events of the Tribulation is clearly presented in the Book of Revelation as beginning in with the initial heavenly events of Chapters 4 and 5. The scene then shifts to the earth beginning with Chapter 6 and the unfolding of the seven Seal Judgments. The peace the Antichrist proclaims is an illusion. As the Seal Judgments are unleashed by the Lord Jesus Christ the earth enters a period of turmoil.

Further it is God, who after the Rapture, stops the present retraining work of the Holy Spirit and allows Satan to go forth bringing destruction on humankind through his control of the Antichrist. In our present dispensation of the Church Age, the Holy Spirit is preventing or restraining Satan from unleashing his destructive wishes on the earth.

Further it is God, who after the Rapture, stops the present retraining work of the Holy Spirit and allows Satan to go forth bringing destruction on humankind through his control of the Antichrist. In our present dispensation of the Church Age, the Holy Spirit is preventing or restraining Satan from unleashing his destructive wishes on the earth.

Paul reveals this in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-15,


"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:7-12)
God's plan is that He will use Satan and the Antichrist to bring His judgment on the earth during the seven year Tribulation. The restraining work of the Holy Spirit, which keeps him in check presently, will end and Satan will be allowed to rein destruction on the earth through the Antichrist. It is God who initiates the destruction on earth by allowing Satan and the Antichrist to work unrestrained. It is God who is now restraining Satan and this clearly shows that is the action of God that allows him to rise to power and thus bring destruction to the earth.

Revelation 6:3-4 states again that "he, Christ, opens the second seal and initiates the second horsemen of red. Once again this is the action of God as power is "given" to this horseman by God to take peace from the earth and allow men to kill one another. 2 Thessalonians 2:6 reveals that the One who is restraining evil today is the Holy Spirit, but when the Antichrist is revealed, the restraining work of the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn. The "son of perdition" referred to as the lawless one and beast will be allowed by God to bring havoc on the earth. Once again it is God who is in full control and carrying out His plan.

This Second Seal Judgment clearly removes peace from the earth by allowing the Antichrist to bring havoc on earth. The Pre-Wrath position is that the first three and a half years of the seven year Tribulation will be a time of peace. Certainly, Revelation 6:4 refutes that false assertion. The third horseman described in Revelation 6:5-6, rides a black horse. He is allowed to bring famine on the earth by Jesus Christ when He opens the third seal judgment.

The third horseman described in Revelation 6:5-6, rides a black horse. He is allowed to bring famine on the earth by Jesus Christ when He opens the third seal judgment.

The forth horseman rides a pale horse and death and hell follows him. Once again the Bible says that Jesus Christ gives the pale horse rider the power to bring a tragic judgment on earth in which a fourth part of the earth is killed. One must note that each of these Seal Judgments are being opened in the first half of the Tribulation and the killing a fourth of the earth with the sword, hunger and death which includes even the animals of the earth cannot be viewed as a time of peace on earth. God is pouring out His wrath on the sinful and unbelieving of the earth. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 is God's promise that believers in this dispensation will not go through His wrath, thus the timing of the Rapture must be before these events.

When Christ opens the fifth seal, John sees under the altar the souls of those killed for the word of God which they refused to reject. These believers whom the Antichrist will slay are in the first part of the Tribulation. Like the persecutions of the past and even those going on in the world today, God allows some believers to be killed for the testimony of Jesus Christ. True believers through out history had died rather than deny the word of God. In every persecution, God always reaps a harvest of souls as the testimony of God's children allows men to see the truth of the life changing power of God in salvation. Because of the testimony of these slain saints of God many will be saved. Again, this is clearly the work of God and the Pre-Wrath view is grossly wrong in assuming that what is happening on the earth is the work of men. Yes, the Antichrist and evil men are the ones who perpetrate this evil attack on those saved during the Tribulation, but it is only done as God allows it to happen.


THE PRE-WRATH VIEW MISTAKENLY CONCLUDES THAT
REVELATION 6:9-11IS REFERRING TO CHURCH AGE SAINTS
The Pre-Wrath view purports that Revelation 6:9-11 is a reference to the Rapture. They preclude that these saints of God are Christians, of the present Church Age, who have been resurrected in the Rapture and are now seen in heaven. This is a serious misinterpretation of this passage. First, verse 9, specifically states that all these saints are ones slain for their testimony of the word of God. These saints are said to be under the altar of God and are crying to the Lord to avenge their deaths on them that are on the earth. Verse 11, says they given white robes and a time of rest as they wait for a short season until their fellow servants and brethren would also be murdered, as they were on the earth. What they are waiting for is the Second Coming of the Messiah Jesus Christ when God purges the world of the Antichrist and sinful men.

This event follows the coming of the pale horse rider to earth. Their deaths are the result of the actions of the rider of the Pale horse who brings death and hell on the earth. This is a picture of events after the Tribulation, during the Seal Judgments, and begins when the Antichrist and his evil forces persecuting and killing believers on the earth. It must be noted the passage states all these have been slain and are crying to the Lord for judgment to come on the Antichrist and those that serve him. Absolutely, nothing in this passage can even remotely be understood as referring to believers in the current Church Age who will be raptured before the Tribulation begins. Revelation 6:9-11 is referring to saints who have believed after the Tribulation has begun. These saints are not part of the current dispensation of the Church Age. These are Jews and Gentiles who believed on Jesus Christ after the Rapture and every one in this group were killed for their testimony for Christ. All believers in this present dispensation have not been killed for their testimony of Jesus Christ. Clearly, this is a different group of believers and not those of the present Church Age. If these are all the raptured saints of God, of this age, it would require that all those who are raptured must be slain. Of course this is not the case and once again the Pre-Wrath heresy is refuted by the word of God.

A carefully and scholarly study of the Book of Revelation shows that between Revelation 3:22 and 19:1 there is no mention of Church Age saints. The events between these two references reveal the progression of the seven year Tribulation until it ends with the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Saints of God are mentioned within these Chapters, but each time it is referring to those who believed within the seven years of the Tribulation and were saved by God.

Another point revealed in this passage and overlooked or ignored by the Pre-Wrath position is that all these saints, both in heaven and on the earth are seen as one group. A part of the group is shown as having been slain and are in heaven. The other part of the group is still on earth and waiting to join the slain saints in heaven, by experiencing their eventual deaths as well at the hands of the Antichrist. Thus the Pre-Wrath view has part of believers raptured and part awaiting the rapture? These cannot be Church Age saints. Throughout history many believers have been persecuted and killed for their testimony for Christ. But most believers in this dispensation have died naturally and were not martyred. This passage says that every one of this group of saints were martyred for their testimony for the word of God. This plainly is not a reference to the Rapture of believers of the Church Age.

When Christ opens the sixth seal there comes a great earthquake on the earth, the sun turns black and the moon to red as blood. Accompanying this catastrophe event is the stars in heaven raining down on the earth. God says the heavens will be rolled up as a scroll and every mountain and island moved out of it presence location. This begs a simple question? How does this fit into the Pre-wrath idea that the Seal Judgments are the "wrath of men?!" The scope of this judgment precludes that any man, even the Antichrist from having the power over the earth, sun, moon and stars. This is plainly the work of God in bring His judgment on the earth and sinful men. This is Almighty God unleashing His omnipotence power over nature and the elements. Revelation 6:17 completely dispels any validity to the Pre-wrath view stating: "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" The "great day of his wrath is come," clearly is referring to the events just described. The word "to come" means "as appeared, accompanied, entered or be set." After experiencing these Six Seal Judgments people on earth will be terrified, and thus the answer to the rhetorical question "who will be able to stand," is no man could stand against God's wrath which has just been revealed.


THE PRE-WRATH VIEW FALSELY LEAVES CHURCH
AGE BELIEVERS ON EARTH IN A SPLIT RAPTURE
Another problem of the Pre-Wrath view at noted above is that Revelation 6:9-10 shows that part of these saints are in heaven the rest on earth. If the Pre-Wrath view is correct this would mean believers who were alive at the Rapture and had not been martyred would still be on earth and would have to go through the Sixth Seal Judgment and its devastating events. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 plainly refutes this idea as being false.


THE CONCLUSION - NO PRE-WRATH RAPTURE


Another problem of the Pre-Wrath view at noted above is that Revelation 6:9-10 shows that part of these saints are in heaven the rest on earth. If the Pre-Wrath view is correct this would mean believers who were alive at the Rapture and had not been martyred would still be on earth and would have to go through the Sixth Seal Judgment and its devastating events. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 plainly refutes this idea as being false.
9-18-07

http://www.bible-truth.org/Pre-Wrath.html

Pre-Wrath Problems

There are a number of problems with the "pre-wrath" position, and I won't go into all of them here, but let's start with this: DISOBEDIENCE

Pre-wrath believers willfully disobey the Lord's command to:
(Luke 21:36)
pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass

That's a command, not an optional buffett table item. See, pre-wrath believers cannot pray what the Lord commands them to, because quite simply, they believe that they are going through at least HALF of the things that are going to come to pass. In fact, they think that the Holy Spirit's command to pray for escape is "escapist" somehow it's whimping out. For us who take the Lord's commands seriously and at face value, we are watching TODAY (as commanded), we are praying that we will be counted worthy to ESCAPE ALL (as commanded), pre-wrath believers are not, how could they? It goes against everything they stand on? That's willful disobedience. Instead of standing on the Word of God, they universally stand on the gospel according to Dave Mcpherson, Dave who? They love to quote so called "christian scholars" instead of the Holy Spirit. How much clearer could the bible be:

Rev 4-A door open in heaven
Rev 5-Redeemed/rewarded men in heaven
Rev 6-The wrath of God is poured out

Luke 21:36 talks about ESCAPE FROM ALL these things
Rev 3:10 talks about being kept from the hour of trial

70 weeks are declared for the Jewish people, the church was'nt around for the first 69 weeks, why would we be around for the 70th week?

The purpose of the 70th week is clearly spelled out:

Seventy weeks (70 x 7) are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression
to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy

thy people? thy holy city? He was talking to Daniel, a Jew...What's the church's holy city? reconciliation for iniquity? Uhhh, Jesus has that one covered for Christian believers....

You have to be willfully in disobedience to not obey the Lord's command to pray for escape, wake up.....

More Confidence in a Pretribulation Rapture

Let's Look at the book of Revelation:

Rev 2-3, Jesus speaking to the churches
Rev 4, NO MORE MENTION OF THE CHURCH FOR THE REST OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION,

A DOOR OPEN IN HEAVEN, COME UP HITHER.....

Rev 5, REDEEMED MEN IN HEAVEN-And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Redeemed men Heaven? Where did they come from? THE RAPTURE

Rev 6, THE WRATH OF GOD IS POURED OUT

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Gosh, I seem to remember something along the lines of : "even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come" or something like that...If the wrath of God shows up in Reveltion 6, and we are delivered from it, seems to me, sometime BEFORE Rev 6, we leave.......

This is a slam dunk case, based just what we've seen here already, if that were'nt enough, we also have the promises of:

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

AND

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

We have the examples of Noah and Lot, who DID NOT have to suffer the punishement of the ungodly, but were taken out from among them before the ungodly were destroyed.

Time is very, very, very short, The Lord is coming, be watching, be ready...
Grace and Peace~D

Pre Tribulation Rapture Confirmation

Yesterday I was spending some time in God's Word and I believe He confirmed to me one more time that the "catching away" of the church will happen very soon, before the tribulation which appears to be imminent. Consider:

Luke 21:36 But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

This verse of scripture is so loaded with pretribulation language, one has to be almost blind not to see it. First, what does it say here: "watch ye at EVERY SEASON" not "start watching at the midpoint of the tribulation" season, or "start watching at the end of the tribulation" season. No, it says EVERY SEASON be watching, that means RIGHT NOW.....Then what does it say? making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape ALL these things that shall come to pass. ESCAPE ALL, ESCAPE ALL, ESCAPE ALL, ESCAPE ALL, escape the first half of the tribulation? NO, ESCAPE ALLLLLLLLL. Those mid and post tribulationists who accuse pretribulation believers of being escapist, should level that charge at the Holy Spirit, He's the one who said "WE SHOULD PRAY FOR ESCAPE" That's not all, the coup de grace is what the Lord showed me yesterday....escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. I often asked the Lord what He meant by "stand before the Son of man." Our verse says two things are going to happen: 1. an escape then 2. standing before Jesus. These two things are linked. So the question is, if we escape somewhere where we will be standing "before the Son of Man" where would that place be? Where is the Son of Man right now? He's at the right hand of the Father IN HEAVEN...the rubbish some have tried to throw at us suggesting that "escape" does'nt mean what it clearly says it means, that somehow we'll still be around slugging it out through the tribulation is hogwash. Standing before the Son of man, also suggests judgement. In this case it ties in perfectly with the vision John had in Revelation 4:4 "And round about the throne were four and twenty thrones: and upon the thrones I saw four and twenty elders sitting, arrayed in white garments; and on their heads crowns of gold." In Rev 4 we see elders who have already been judged and rewarded as evidenced by the crowns of Gold on their heads.

Here we have another track on this idea in the book of Daniel. Daniel 9:24 says, "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy place." In this message Gabriel clearly says to Daniel that it is "for your people." Daniel's people were Jews, the nation of Israel. God declared 70 weeks against the nation of Israel. This 70 weeks is literally from the Hebrew of the Old Testament, 70 sevens. In other words 70 times 7 years, or 490 years. 69 times 7 (483) of those years were fulfilled from the end of the Israel's captivity in Babylon to the cutting off of Messiah (crucifixion of Christ), leaving 7 years of judgment left to be fulfilled. Those 7 years are the years of the Tribulation. The point is that these years are to be fulfilled against Israel primarily and the purpose is found in Daniel 9:24. The purpose is "to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy place."

What mid and post trib believers tell us is that we will be part of the 70th week when we were not a part of the first 69 weeks?? Does'nt make much sense....

Earlier, in Luke 21:34 it says 34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest haply your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day come on you suddenly as a snare"

Hmmm, let's think about this for a second, what did the Lord say would be "overcharging our hearts" at the time of this escape? Surfeiting and drunkenness, or said in another way: overindulgence in food, drink and the cares of this life...Not the antichrist roaming the earth (seal 1) NOPE, not WAR, DEATH of around 2 BILLION PEOPLE from famine war and the wild beasts of the earth (the other seals that open the tribulation) ...NOPE. Gosh, seems to me the events contained in those seals would "overcharge" my heart a little bit if I was around to see them......but "prewrath" and post trib folks don't think those events will trouble them at all!!

The days of Noah and Lot (Matt 24:38, Luke 17)the bible says:

1. Noah entered the ark, THEN the flood came......

38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

2. in THE DAY THAT LOT WENT OUT from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven

Luke 21:38 Likewise even as it came to pass in the days of Lot; they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 but in the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Time is so very short, wake up people, repent, turn back to your Creator....grace and peace~D

Who Are We to Deserve This?

Having then a great high priest, who hath passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.

Think about this for a moment, we are granted access to the throne of the Creator of the Universe.....think about it................How honored would people feel if they were granted access to the president or prime minister of a country? And who are they compared to the Creator of all things? How blessed are we who believe and obey, to have a High Priest like the Son of God, who loves us. It strains the mind to grasp it. Time is short, be watching, be ready-brother D

Faith

The Lord spoke to me this morning about faith. He said that many times when we are facing a decision of choosing A or B, it does'nt matter which one we choose, as long as we base our decision for choosing A or B on faith. The God we serve can transform any situation into one that blesses us. Great is the King we serve!

The Days of Noah

Multitudes feel under no moral obligation to curb their sensual desires, and they become the slaves of lust. Men are living for the pleasures of sense; for this world and this life alone. Extravagance pervades all circles of society. Integrity is sacrificed for luxury and display. They that make haste to be rich pervert justice and oppress the poor, and "slaves and souls of men" are still bought and sold. Fraud and bribery and theft stalk unrebuked in high places and in low. The issues of the press teem with records of murder--crimes so cold-blooded and causeless that it seems as though every instinct of humanity were blotted out. And these atrocities have become of so common occurrence that they hardly elicit a comment or awaken surprise. The spirit of anarchy is permeating all nations, and the outbreaks that from time to time excite the horror of the world are but indications of the pent-up fires of passion and lawlessness that, having once escaped control, will fill the earth with woe and desolation. The picture which Inspiration has given of the antediluvian world represents too truly the condition to which modern society is fast hastening. Even now, in the present century, and in professedly Christian lands, there are crimes daily perpetrated as black and terrible as those for which the old-world sinners were destroyed.
Before the Flood God sent Noah to warn the world, that the people might be led to repentance, and thus escape the threatened destruction. As the time of Christ's second appearing draws near, the Lord sends His servants with a warning to the world to prepare for that great event. Multitudes have been living in transgression of God's law, and now He in mercy calls them to obey its sacred precepts. All who will put away their sins by repentance toward God and faith in Christ are offered pardon. But many feel that it requires too great a sacrifice to put away sin. Because their life does not harmonize with the pure principles of God's moral government, they reject His warnings and deny the authority of His law.

Of the vast population of the earth before the Flood, only eight souls believed and obeyed God's word through Noah. For a hundred and twenty years the preacher of righteousness warned the world of the coming destruction, but his message was rejected and despised. So it will be now. Before the Lawgiver shall come to punish the disobedient, transgressors are warned to repent, and return to their allegiance; but with the majority these warnings will be in vain. Says the apostle Peter, "There shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and

Page 103
saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning." 2 Peter 3:3, 4. Do we not hear these very words repeated, not merely by the openly ungodly, but by many who occupy the pulpits of our land? "There is no cause for alarm," they cry. "Before Christ shall come, all the world is to be converted, and righteousness is to reign for a thousand years. Peace, peace! all things continue as they were from the beginning. Let none be disturbed by the exciting message of these alarmists." But this doctrine of the millennium does not harmonize with the teachings of Christ and His apostles. Jesus asked the significant question, "When the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8. And, as we have seen, He declares that the state of the world will be as in the days of Noah. Paul warns us that we may look for wickedness to increase as the end draws near: "The Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." 1 Timothy 4:1. The apostle says that "in the last days perilous times shall come." 2 Timothy 3:1. And he gives a startling list of sins that will be found among those who have a form of godliness.
As the time of their probation was closing, the antediluvians gave themselves up to exciting amusements and festivities. Those who possessed influence and power were bent on keeping the minds of the people engrossed with mirth and pleasure, lest any should be impressed by the last solemn warning. Do we not see the same repeated in our day? While God's servants are giving the message that the end of all things is at hand, the world is absorbed in amusements and pleasure seeking. There is a constant round of excitement that causes indifference to God and prevents the people from being impressed by the truths which alone can save them from the coming destruction.

In Noah's day philosophers declared that it was impossible for the world to be destroyed by water; so now there are men of science who endeavor to show that the world cannot be destroyed by fire--that this would be inconsistent with the laws of nature. But the God of nature, the Maker and Controller of her laws, can use the works of His hands to serve His own purpose.

When great and wise men had proved to their satisfaction that it was impossible for the world to be destroyed by water, when

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the fears of the people were quieted, when all regarded Noah's prophecy as a delusion, and looked upon him as a fanatic--then it was that God's time had come. "The fountains of the great deep" were "broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened," and the scoffers were overwhelmed in the waters of the Flood. With all their boasted philosophy, men found too late that their wisdom was foolishness, that the Lawgiver is greater than the laws of nature, and that Omnipotence is at no loss for means to accomplish His purposes. "As it was in the days of Noah," "even thus shall it be in the days when the Son of man is revealed." Luke 17:26, 30. "The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Peter 3:10. When the reasoning of philosophy has banished the fear of God's judgments; when religious teachers are pointing forward to long ages of peace and prosperity, and the world are absorbed in their rounds of business and pleasure, planting and building, feasting and merrymaking, rejecting God's warnings and mocking His messengers--then it is that sudden destruction cometh upon them, and they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 5:3.
http://www.egwtext.whiteestate.org/pp/pp7.html

Be Ready, Be Watching

The stake in the heart of Mid and Post tribulation rapture thinking is the idea of watching and readiness for the Lord's return. The Lord clearly and unequivocally tells us to be ready and watching TODAY. Not tomorrow, not next week, not mid tribulation, not post tribulation, TODAY. The time to be ready for the Lord's return is today, this very minute. Who guarantees any of us another minute on this planet? Who knows if the Lord is going to show up in another minute? Those who are not ready when the Lord shows up, don't get into the kingdom. We don't have tomorrow to be ready, only today. We must be faithful servants today, we must be obedient today, today is the day of salvation.

Matt 24:39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

They knew not.....why? No lamp (the word of God), No oil (the Holy Spirit) so they are blind. Just having a lamp isn't good enough either, you must have oil, you must be filled with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of your inheritance...

Matt 25:8
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are going out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Peradventure there will not be enough for us and you: go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went away to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage feast: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know not the day nor the hour.

While they went away to buy, the Lord came.....they were'nt ready when He came. I find what the Lord said to those who were not ready very sobering:

Matt25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Get your life in order today, repent today, pray today-for all the brothers, for your family, for yourself, time is short...Grace and peace~D

The Works of God

John 6:27-29
27 Work not for the food which perisheth, but for the food which abideth unto eternal life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him the Father, even God, hath sealed.
28 They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So the work of God is to believe in Jesus.

Acts 5:32
And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

You wonder why so many confess to be christians, yet so many are in full blown apostacy? Why is that? Answer...they don't obey, they don't really want the truth, they love lies, therefore there is no Holy Spirit within them...which means also, they are not saved. The Holy Spirit is the guarantee of our redemption.

Romans 2:8
but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation

Hebrews 5:9
and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey him the author of eternal salvation;

No obedience=no salvation ^^^^

Time is short, it's time to take a hard look at ourselves and know that we know that we know that we are "in Christ"

Only a few are going to make it, don't you want to be one of them????

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

What Does the Lord Require of Us?

Micah 6:8 He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth Jehovah require of thee, but to do justly, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with thy God?


James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Matt 7:12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Romans 14:12
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

1 John 4:16-18
16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Lessons From the Churches of Revelation-The Good

Here are the things the Lord commended the churches of Revelation for:

1. No tolerance for evil men/false prophets: ‘I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false; 3 and you have perseverance and have endured for My name’s sake, and have not grown weary.

2. Hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans: Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

3. Patiently enduring: ‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

4. More patient enduring: ‘I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

5. Love, Faith, Service, Perseverance and Growth (think parable of the talents here): I know your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than at first.

6. Unsoiled Garments (untainted by the world): But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.

7. Keeping His Word and His Name: I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied My name.

8. More Perseverance: Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Lessons From the Churches of Revelation-The Bad

Here are the things the Lord had against the churches in the book of Revelation:

1. They left their first love: But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 ‘Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent.

2. Holding to the teaching of Balaam: But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.

3. Holding to the teaching of the Nicolaitans: 15 ‘So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 ‘Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.

4. Tolerating Jezebel: But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 ‘I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. 22 ‘Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. 23 ‘And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.

5. Being dead, but thinking they are alive: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 ‘Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. 3 ‘So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

6. Being lukewarm: ‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16 ‘So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. 17 ‘Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,

VIP Seating

Over the past few days I've been in Las Vegas with my wife for a short vacation. That place is a cesspool, but that's not the point I want to make today. We were traveling through one of the casino's looking for a place to sit down and watch some of the college bowl games. We arrived at the sports area of one casino and we noticed that most of the seats were taken. The only seats that were not taken had little signs on them that said "VIP only." Obviously that was not us, so we had to keep looking for a place to watch the game. Here's what the Lord impressed upon me later. In people's hearts they have all these "seats." The Lord wants ALL of the seats in your heart. Some people have "VIP reserved" signs on some of their seats though. People reserve seating in their hearts for money, power, fame, sex, and/or any of many other worldly things. As the Lord survey's this scene in their hearts, looking at all those "VIP" signs they reserve for sin and the world, do you think He is pleased? Grace and peace~brother D