Saturday, December 27, 2008

A Rebuttal of the Once Saved Always Saved Teachings of Jack Kelly (rapture ready)

Mr Kelly is one of the outspoken defenders of the OSAS (once saved always saved doctrine). Today I read his article that rehashes the same OSAS arguments while avoiding all the biblical torpedoes that sink its ship

Mr Kelly asks, what does it take to "be saved" then he quotes:

Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

What he does'nt this:

James 2 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Kelly tells you all you have to do is believe, Paul tells you even the demons believe...and shiver. Notice he is NOT talking about rewards here, he's talking verse 2 he clearly asks can faith SAVE him....? Faith without works (talking about SAVING you) is rewards, no fellowship talked about, we're talking straightup salvation. You believe, the devils believe, what makes you think you are any more "saved" than they are?

Notice also, that neither Kelly nor any other OSAS teacher goes within a mile of John 15, which clearly describes "in the vine" = "in Christ" = saved, and cutoff, burned etc. "in Christ" is talking about union with him, period. If you are "cutoff" and burned up, you are'nt "saved" clear enough yea?

John 15 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

This is the clearest and most straitforward gaping hole in the Titantic called OSAS. The branch was in the vine, it did not abide, and was cast forth, withered and burned up. Please explain to me how a cast forth withered burned up branch is a saved person Mr Kelly? He won't touch it. Please explain how a person "in the vine" is not in "union" with Christ? The branch is "in the vine" then its cast forth and burned up, union, then no union, clear enough?

Then he quotes:

"For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:38-40)

Its not Gods will that any should be lost, but MOST will be (Matt 7:14), so the fact that God does'nt want men to be lost DOES NOT equate to them being saved. Read Matt 7:14 and Matt 7:21 until it sinks in....

Kelly then argues:

When He says in John 10:28, "No one can snatch them out of my hand," they (we who don't buy into OSAS) have to insert the phrase "but us" after "no one".
It's the same with Romans 8:38-39.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Here they have to insert the phrase "but us" after "in all creation".

We don't have to insert anything to read this to say what it says. Can a person "snatch themself" out of God's hand? Does that make any sense? No it doesn'nt. Being snatched out of God's hand tells us that no external force is going to "snatch you" OSAS believers have to put words into God's mouth by ASSUMING that somehow YOU are included in the group that cannot snatch YOU out of God's hand. OSAS says you cannot snatch you out of God's hand, does that make any sense whatsoever? None. So the fact that you can stand up and walk away freely (just like the prodigal son did) is perfectly plausible.

Kelly argues that the prodigal son story is a story about rewards. He has to overlook the entire story to make that conclusion since 1. the prodigal son took his rewards upfront and went away into the world 2. the Father said that son was DEAD...that sound "saved" to you?

Luke 15:21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.[a]'
22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.

If "this son of mine was dead" means "saved" then I'm a monkeys uncle....there's no possible plausible, absolutely NO WAY.

You have the prodigal son story that disproves OSAS
You have John 15 which is a nuke strike on the entire argument
You have Matt 7:14 and 7:21 that give you background on the entire issue..A FEW WILL BE SAVED.

I'v already shown you from the bible that if all it took was to believe, then even the devils would be "saved" because they believe...and they tremble. If people like Jack Kelly want to prove the OSAS case, then they need to answer to the huge problems that John 15 and all the other OSAS debunking scriptures pose to their arguments. I'd love to believe that OSAS was true, who would'nt. There are just too many roadblocks between here and there for me to get there.

Revelation 3:1-5 “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels”.

Here again we see the Lord talking about BLOTTING NAMES OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE. Ummm, if you want to test the Lord on this point and see for yourself what happens if you "don't overcome" then have at it. Would God really blot their name out of the Book of Life? If we say no, then we accuse God of using vain threats on His people. If God says He “will not” blot names out of those who are faithful, the natural and logical conclusion would be that He “WILL” blot out the names of those who are not faithful. I've said this over and over again, the wrong time to find out that you were wrong about OSAS is on judgement day.

Kelly also quotes this:

2 Cor. 1:21-22. Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

sounds pretty convincing until you read a literal translation of the same passage:

21 and He who is confirming you with us into Christ, and did anoint us, is God, 22 who also sealed us, and gave the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Which says nothing about God being the only one responsible for making you stand in Christ. The bible absolutely does not say that. God puts the Holy Spirit deposit in us when we are "in Christ" We are "in Christ" and He is "in us." We are one. Mr. Kelly uses the example of buying a house, the person who promises to buy puts earnest money down, which is a promise that they will DO THEIR PART, and YOU do yours....What happens if before the transaction is complete, the seller decides not to sell anymore? Can they change their mind? Yes, they can. At that point the buyer who promised to buy has'nt changed their mind, THE SELLER HAS. If people are going to use metaphors, then flesh them all the way out. You have a free will. If you could not walk away, then why did Jesus constantly remind you to "abide in me" "remain in me" why did he use those words if there was no way you could walk away? OSAS teachers like Kelly would rather not go down that road.

Here's the bottom line and the background for this argument, A FEW WILL BE SAVED....let that sink in deep, a few. Research your bible about it always being a REMNANT..a few that are saved from Israel all the way through to today..its a FEW. If OSAS were true, don't you think MANY would be saved? If OSAS were true, why could'nt you "make a decision" for Jesus AND live a life of sin in this world to party it up while you are still here? Why not have the best that sin and heaven have to offer. You rewards might not be great, but if you are still "saved" who cares, its still heaven! Unfortunately, the bible does'nt read that way. Until OSAS teachers like Kelly can address the gaping holes in their theory (OSAS) why should anyone consider it further? If I'm wrong, I have nothing to worry about, I think the standard is high. If he's wrong then his teachings may have sent many to hell. That's something to worry about.

grace and peace